Thank you!
And IMO that would be an exceedingly strange takeaway as I see it in general, pigeons being some classic Pavlovian-exhibiting animals as it were. So then, perhaps what’s being suggested here is that they’re more exploratory and exhibit much more free will and unpredictability than previously imagined…?
Something like that. I think the study wasn’t designed/interpreted well to demonstrate variable behavior.
They presented the pigeons with 5 differently colored buttons. 5 button presses of any color in any order would dispense a food reward.
The pigeons continued to press random buttons and get their food. The researchers argued that since the pigeons didn’t press the same sequence every time, or the same button 5 times in a row, that this demonstrates they prefer to try new behaviors rather than stick with ones they know result in a reward.
I think they might be giving the pigeons too much credit, intelligence-wise… but I’m kind of a pigeon hater so I’m severely biased lol
Did they have a control group where the colors did matter? If there was never a condition of it mattering, why would anyone vary the presses, unless they just liked pressing red a lot, or the easier to reach buttons, or something else. Seems like an experiment that had already determined the result.
5 button presses of any color in any order would dispense a food reward.
With rules like that, I don’t understand why you would expect the pigeons to repeat the same sequence. Of course, this is yet another study that shouldn’t have even made it through peer review.
With rules like that I would expect people to split onto two groups: ones that learn one pattern and repeat it because it’s a guaranteed result, and one that tries to find a counterexample to the rule they thought of at first. The fact that pigeons try different patterns kind of makes them more clever in my eyes.
But it’s known that pigeons perform better than humans in Monty Hall problem, so they are really pretty smart when it comes to statistics, it seems
Yeah it seems that probably pigeons didn’t know what worked or didn’t work and since they never got a wrong answer after 5 button pushes, nothing mattered. Did they push the buttons faster?
A fun anecdotal story is my partner knew someone who worked at a prison in Ireland. Apparently someone was visiting, and saw a pigeon with a little package of coke attached the the leg. They pointed it out to the guard who responded “not worth the paperwork” 😆
Thank you!
And IMO that would be an exceedingly strange takeaway as I see it in general, pigeons being some classic Pavlovian-exhibiting animals as it were. So then, perhaps what’s being suggested here is that they’re more exploratory and exhibit much more free will and unpredictability than previously imagined…?
Or something like that?
Something like that. I think the study wasn’t designed/interpreted well to demonstrate variable behavior.
They presented the pigeons with 5 differently colored buttons. 5 button presses of any color in any order would dispense a food reward.
The pigeons continued to press random buttons and get their food. The researchers argued that since the pigeons didn’t press the same sequence every time, or the same button 5 times in a row, that this demonstrates they prefer to try new behaviors rather than stick with ones they know result in a reward.
I think they might be giving the pigeons too much credit, intelligence-wise… but I’m kind of a pigeon hater so I’m severely biased lol
I think they’ve only found that pigeons can’t count to 5
Did they have a control group where the colors did matter? If there was never a condition of it mattering, why would anyone vary the presses, unless they just liked pressing red a lot, or the easier to reach buttons, or something else. Seems like an experiment that had already determined the result.
Well, it does tend to happen with rats/monkeys/people.
If 5 buttons all work the same way, you just hit whichever one is closest or whatever, over and over again. You spam it, hit it as fast as you can.
I can wake up my computer by hitting any key, I have something like 50 keys to choose from, I click the mouse every time.
deleted by creator
With rules like that, I don’t understand why you would expect the pigeons to repeat the same sequence. Of course, this is yet another study that shouldn’t have even made it through peer review.
With rules like that I would expect people to split onto two groups: ones that learn one pattern and repeat it because it’s a guaranteed result, and one that tries to find a counterexample to the rule they thought of at first. The fact that pigeons try different patterns kind of makes them more clever in my eyes.
But it’s known that pigeons perform better than humans in Monty Hall problem, so they are really pretty smart when it comes to statistics, it seems
They thought the pigeons would develop a favourite button or a favourite pattern. But the pigeons prefer variety over favourites.
Yeah it seems that probably pigeons didn’t know what worked or didn’t work and since they never got a wrong answer after 5 button pushes, nothing mattered. Did they push the buttons faster?
So pigeons are both chaotic AND nihilistic !
But if theres no wrong answer why would they
Yeah maybe they were wondering if they could get something better to happen and there was no cost in just pushing random buttons so why not
Also wouldn’t that mean that pigeons wouldn’t be trainable with treats?
I have a friend who trains WILD pigeons with food, so… doubt
Trains wild pigeons where?
Around Wellington CBD. It’s not just her, it’s a thing people do
https://youtube.com/shorts/9w1l9q9qXMw?si=yse9PO-FBqWvg3Ma
Thank you for pigeon training videos. You knew exactly why I asked LOL
A fun anecdotal story is my partner knew someone who worked at a prison in Ireland. Apparently someone was visiting, and saw a pigeon with a little package of coke attached the the leg. They pointed it out to the guard who responded “not worth the paperwork” 😆
Omg that’s so funny