Btw, veganism is really about just minimizing the harm you cause to the world. Don’t let any puritans tell you otherwise. What you have described is a form of veganism! Admittedly, it’s a little bit minimalistic, but it’s still something!
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”
From thevegansociety.com, emphasis mine. I’d argue strongly and vehemently that what is described above is not “as far as is possible and practicable” at all! It’s firmly within “as long as it doesn’t really inconvenience me” territory
I’m not a perfect vegan, I do my best, and I’m getting better. The expectation of perfection is self defeating. Ideally, though, I would have zero captive slaughtered animals in the world.
Right, I’m explicitly talking about “as far as is practicable and possible”. For instance I have to take a certain medication in order to function but there is no vegan derivative, they all contain gelatin. It is impossible for me to “exclude all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals”. But I do it “as far as is possible” which (at least initially) went far beyond what I considered comfortable.
And that’s the distinction I’m trying to make, if you are sure it is impossible, if it is not practicable (as in, not possible to be put into practice no matter how you twist or turn it), then sure it is what it is. what can you do. No ethical consumption under capitalism. But if you still have holdouts because you aren’t “ready” to give up certain treats or comforts then you aren’t (yet?) vegan.
Not being able to reach perfection is no excuse to not get as close as possible to it.
I don’t know that there’s any one thing that veganism is “all about”, per se. There are a ton of good reasons to eat fewer animal products, and everyone can cut out some level of extra saturated fat in their diets. The ability to cull and harvest a disgusting level of animal meat is the reason heart disease is the number one killer of modern humans
I’m not even fully vegan, I just eat animal fats in heavy moderation and balance them with lots of plants and exercise. I’m not perfect, I like eggs, but eggs aren’t fucking healthy in any context. And that’s only one of the several phenomenal reasons to eat way fewer animal products and more plant based & home-cooked.
You didn’t answer my question. Would you/do you support the ethical and mutually beneficial raising of animals? Chickens for eggs, milk for dairy animals. No abuse, good healthcare, no premature slaughter, etc.?
Edit. I just realized I’m not responding to the same person. But the deflection still stands.
How will you get the milk and eggs without abuse? Cows don’t just automatically start producing milk and chickens were bred to lay more eggs at the cost of their health. If you really tried to get these products without abusing the animals it would be so inefficient that only a tiny fraction of people could afford to consume them in bigger amounts.
Btw, veganism is really about just minimizing the harm you cause to the world. Don’t let any puritans tell you otherwise. What you have described is a form of veganism! Admittedly, it’s a little bit minimalistic, but it’s still something!
From thevegansociety.com, emphasis mine. I’d argue strongly and vehemently that what is described above is not “as far as is possible and practicable” at all! It’s firmly within “as long as it doesn’t really inconvenience me” territory
I’m not a perfect vegan, I do my best, and I’m getting better. The expectation of perfection is self defeating. Ideally, though, I would have zero captive slaughtered animals in the world.
Right, I’m explicitly talking about “as far as is practicable and possible”. For instance I have to take a certain medication in order to function but there is no vegan derivative, they all contain gelatin. It is impossible for me to “exclude all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals”. But I do it “as far as is possible” which (at least initially) went far beyond what I considered comfortable.
And that’s the distinction I’m trying to make, if you are sure it is impossible, if it is not practicable (as in, not possible to be put into practice no matter how you twist or turn it), then sure it is what it is. what can you do. No ethical consumption under capitalism. But if you still have holdouts because you aren’t “ready” to give up certain treats or comforts then you aren’t (yet?) vegan.
Not being able to reach perfection is no excuse to not get as close as possible to it.
I don’t know that there’s any one thing that veganism is “all about”, per se. There are a ton of good reasons to eat fewer animal products, and everyone can cut out some level of extra saturated fat in their diets. The ability to cull and harvest a disgusting level of animal meat is the reason heart disease is the number one killer of modern humans
And none of those reasons are veganism. Veganism provides a singular reason to not exploit animals any more than we need to for survival.
Just because your vegan doesn’t mean you don’t eat saturated fats. Coconut oil exists and I use way too much of that shit.
I’m not even fully vegan, I just eat animal fats in heavy moderation and balance them with lots of plants and exercise. I’m not perfect, I like eggs, but eggs aren’t fucking healthy in any context. And that’s only one of the several phenomenal reasons to eat way fewer animal products and more plant based & home-cooked.
Then as a vegan you would support raising chickens, pigs, and goats on a small hobby farm where the animals are extremely well cared for and happy?
animal sanctuaries exist for this reason
You didn’t answer my question. Would you/do you support the ethical and mutually beneficial raising of animals? Chickens for eggs, milk for dairy animals. No abuse, good healthcare, no premature slaughter, etc.?
Edit. I just realized I’m not responding to the same person. But the deflection still stands.
How will you get the milk and eggs without abuse? Cows don’t just automatically start producing milk and chickens were bred to lay more eggs at the cost of their health. If you really tried to get these products without abusing the animals it would be so inefficient that only a tiny fraction of people could afford to consume them in bigger amounts.