Don’t forget Pope Benedict was in the Hitler Youth.
Hmm… yeah. But the majority of right wing Nazis is now in ex GDR. The Problem With them Post war was ignored or downplayed.
When GDR would become Part of Germany again, they have become victoms of a great sell out and the majority of companies closed. That caused a Lot of distrust to the (new) government. Not defending Nazi scum Here. But the ex GDR Population was an easy target for the few Nazis that were left in Western Germany.
Now we gotta Deal With that Shit again, so I do Not agree on soviet union getting rid of Nazis. They straight Up ignored it in the Long Run tbh.
Operation Osoaviakhim was a secret Soviet operation in which more than 2,500 German specialists (scientists, engineers and technicians who worked in several areas) from companies and institutions relevant to military and economic policy in the Soviet occupation zone of Germany (SBZ) and Berlin, as well as around 4,000 more family members, totalling more than 6,000 people, were taken from former Nazi Germany as war reparations to the Soviet Union. It took place in the early morning hours of October 22, 1946
Did these people get promoted to the head of the USSR’s space program or the chief of staff of the Warsaw Pact or the UN Secretary General or the the Head of the Soviet Socialist Republic Commission?
No, the were used for their technical knowledge and allowed to live quiet lives in obscurity, away from any political power.
No, the were used for their technical knowledge and allowed to live quiet lives in obscurity, away from any political power.
A blatant lie. Erich Apel joined the East German party and became head of the GDRs Economics Comission in the Politburo.
Werner Gruner became an emeritus professor at the TU Dresden.
Brunolf Baade joined the Socialist Unity Party in East Germany and led the jet plane industry there, after having done the same in the Soviet Union. He also was director of the Institute for Lightweight construction and the economical use of Materials and a lecturer at Dresden.
In fact, many of the captured German scientists were only in captivity for less than a decade; afterwards the vast majority of them were allowed to return to East Germany and Austria, where most seem to have lived comfortable lives, and a number of them were politically active with high offices. They certainly did not live in obscurity, nor were they kept away from political power.
They were allowed to live they were given a country of refuge in their families were brought with them.
We already agreed on this, so I don’t know what your point is.
The keywords here being “as war reparations”.
Nazis were put to work for their crimes not given a new name and passport and a high paying and respected career.
I like how the truth about nearly 3,000 Nazi scientists over 4, 000 Nazi regime members in their families were given nice lives in Russia after the war. I like how that little truth breaks everything you’re trying to say.
I can’t find anything on Walter Hallstein and Adolf Heusinger being nazis or committing war crimes. Looks like the former was an academic drafted in the army and the latter a high-ranking officer who began his career before the nazis.
I get that Heusinger can be seen as complicit (he must have known for whom he worked and didn’t quit), but what about Hallstein?
Wikipedia gives plenty on Adolf Heusinger’s involvement in the Nazi party and millitary.
Here’s a link for Hallstein.
But perhaps the most shocking thing of all about this speech is that Hallstein stated one of the most important laws to be introduced in the annexed countries was the “Law for the Protection of the German Blood, and the German Honour.” In other words, he advocated the imposition of the Nuremberg Race Laws as a top priority in “Greater Germany.” These laws excluded German Jews from Reich citizenship and prohibited them from marrying, or even having sexual relations, with persons of German or related blood.
Thanks for reading more carefully than me!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Hallstein
In 1935, Hallstein attempted to start a military career alongside his academic duties.[17] In 1936, he managed to integrate a voluntary military service in an artillery unit.[17] In the years between 1936 and 1939, he attended several military courses[18] and was made a reserve officer.[17]
Hallstein was a member of several nominally Nazi professional organizations,[g][19] but he was not a member of the Nazi Party
Not the worst nazi but the voluntary military service under the Nazis seals the deal for me. Definitely a Nazi.
Ah yeah, I thought he was drafted. Thanks!
When US citizens say their great uncle killed Nazis, they want to say they killed drafted cannon fodder.
On my way to the next liberated camp, I met some advance units of the Red Army that had occupied a German house. Soviet troops were closing in on Weimar in Eastern Germany. I was immediately embraced and pushed into a celebration already in progress. A glass of what I suppose was Vodka, or gasoline, was thrust into my hand. Everyone was stomping and dancing joyfully. A burly Soviet soldier, with pants stuffed into big black boots, grabbed me, lifted me off my feet and started swinging me around the room. It was only when I was put down that I realized that my dancing partner was a woman. The Soviet Army included females as well as males, but it was sometimes hard to tell which was which. One of the Russian soldiers asked me what I did in the American army. I told him I was a war crimes investigator. I explained that I tried to get evidence of what the SS did. “Don’t you know what they did?” he asked. I said that, of course, I did. “So why are you asking them?” he said quizzically. “Just shoot them!” In later years, when it became clear that we could never try more than a very small sampling of the criminals, and that almost all would escape punishment, I often thought of the advice I got from the simple Russian soldier. Being a lawman, I couldn’t accept it, but I often wondered if he was right.
- Investigating Nazi Concentration Camps, Benjamin B. Ferencz
Fuck that hits hard
That whole story is quite the intense read. Thanks for sharing!
No problem, comrade!
Read something interesting earlier on Folke Bernadotte’s Wiki. Where is it…
In April 1945, Heinrich Himmler asked Bernadotte to convey a peace proposal to Prime Minister Winston Churchill and President Harry S. Truman without the knowledge of Adolf Hitler. The main point of the proposal was that Germany would surrender only to the Western Allies (the United Kingdom and the United States), but would be allowed to continue resisting the Soviet Union.
Right after WWII, the US rehabilitated its “enemies,” Germany, Italy, and Japan, while starting the Cold War with its “ally,” the USSR. Rehabilitating Germany & Japan was important for the US’ containment strategy against the USSR.
If we see that Germany is winning the war, we ought to help Russia; and if that Russia is winning, we ought to help Germany, and in that way let them kill as many as possible […]. — Senator and future president Harry S. Truman, 1941
This piece of shit also wanted the Japanese to kill all the PLA communists even though the Chinese were allies at the time.
Demons, the lot of them.
The politicians that is.
So you’re telling me the Soviets treated Nazi’s like they treated their own people. Curious.
No? What are you talking about? Getting real tired of liberals claiming to be anarchists that think they can say whatever they want about socialist states, regardless of its validity, and claim it’s simply “anarchist critique.” No, anarchist critique is based on looking at historical truth and evaluating it with an anarchist lens, not making shit up.
Yes, your fall back defense and insult: everyone you disagree with is a “liberal”. As tiresome as it is predictable. Though this is Hardly an Anarchist critique. Anyone with a basic understanding of the history and no ulterior motives could make the point: Prior to Stalin’s death, life was cheap in the USSR. More “good” communists faced execution than Nazis.
More “good” communists faced execution than Nazis.
100 GORRIOLLON NO IFONE
Take your Black Book of Communism nonsense and shove it
Yep, anyone can make shit up, like you just did. 4 million Nazis were killed on the Eastern Front in battle, a number far exceeding even the most outlandish figures liberals came up with for purges, even if we assume 100% of those purged were innocent, which is of course wrong (the vast majority were proven guilty).
Now, in reality, life expectancy doubled while Stalin was in office, and the vast majority of those executed in purges (which wasn’t what happened to most that were purged, usually just party expulsions) were found to be guilty of crimes like murder, terrorism, espionage, sexual assault, and more. We also know that there was good reason for the purges, because the USSR was under constant siege, threat of war, infiltration, sabotage, and more for its entire existence, especially prior to World War II.
You don’t have a critique to make, you’re just repeating Red Scare mythology. Truth for you is less important than wielding the Red Scare like a club against those you disagree with, even if it’s trivial to disprove your claims.
No he said the West did that.
It’s ok bro. You must be 12.
An even more vapid rebuttal then I expected
Funny how Russia’s Operation Osoaviakhim did the exact same thing, they were just worse at it. This thread is Russian backed propaganda.
Operation Osoaviakhim did the exact same thing
Cope, no it didn’t. The US gave ex Nazis leadership positions, the soviets did the pragmatic thing and only extracted useful knowledge and executed them if they refused
You live in a larp world where everyone who disagrees with you is a Russian government agent lmao
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For reference, LARP means live-action role-playing. Dressup fun activities for nerds. People who are too online call each other larpers both ironically or otherwise when mocking the validity of their ideology.
Implying someone is secretly a Russian operative for using a word you don’t know is so illustrative of their point that I’m starting to think it’s a bit. Great job if it is.
Someone I disagree with used a word I don’t know, must be a russian agent slipping up! I knew it!
See what I mean?
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Did you know that le soviets are the exact same evil as le Nazis??? (I’m very smart)
Double genocide theory is a form of holocaust denial you dipshit
and also before its read wrong im not criticizing the people they did hang but people Arno von Lenski and Kurt Nier who got away with their crimes, maintained power and shielded friends because they agreed to collaborate with soviets letting this happen the wrong call .
Arno von Lenski and Kurt Nier
- DDR was not part of the Soviet union
- Rehabilitation back into society should be an option
- Denazification was still way more thorough in the DDR than the BRD
Edit: Thanks for the correction @[email protected]
12·22 hours agoDDR and GDR is the same thing, just in German and English. You’re looking for BRD or FRG (again, German and English)
When did i say anything even remotely like that just that soviet denazification wasn’t as thorough as some like to pretend?
Are you saying Stalin shouldnt have stopped at Berlin?
Ok sorry misread your comment then
How could the soviets been more thorough in your opinion?
some were given a pass for convenience and even if much much less than the west “ex”-nazis still about 10% of large parts of east german goverment and people like Arno von Lenski and Kurt Nier got away with their crimes, maintained power and shielded friends because they agreed to collaborate with soviets letting this happen the wrong call .
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this meme is pro soviet hardly pro putin he isn’t relevant to its statement,
Other than trying to resurrect soviet Russia, nothing at all to do with it…
The USSR is dead dipshit. It was hollowed out by capitalists a long time ago. Those capitalists are still running the country and have given no sign of reviving the USSR, no matter how much you jerk yourself off over miraculously getting the opportunity to be victimized by it. Meet us in the real world when you’re ready.
The good news is that the CPRF is gaining in strength, whether United Russia likes it or not.
At this rate it’s going to only take CPRF another 50 years or so to take the power, I don’t have much belief in any of the official parties doing anything useful on that front
Change usually isn’t linear, but a gradual quantitative buildup to a qualitative leap.
You are one of the most propagandized people on earth
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Everyone who who disbelieves the State Department line is part of an ethnic slav conspiracy , and other copes for racists
The CPRF, the largest opposition to United Russia, wants to do so, not United Russia.
Putin is Russia. Your parties aren’t politically relevant.
I’m not Russian, nor is Putin Russia itself. Putin’s party, United Russia, is the nationalist party, and the CPRF is its largest opposition that is gaining in support.
The US being a one party state really broke liberals’s brains into thinking that’s the only possible political outcome.
Not even that, it’s straight up “L’État, c’est moi” but not even as hyperbole, for those people its completely unironic.
except he is not trying to do that at all i mean it would be more accurate to say he is trying to restore the Russian empire that would be closer to accurate at least but not really that accurate either.
What would be completely accurate, then?
He’s a hyper capitalist russian nationalist trying to expand his power and strengthen his position and maybe views it not as “his” but '“russian” power and position his thoughts don’t matter. That’s really nothing to do with soviet ideals or aesthetics other than a general nostalgia for being relevant he purposely denies soviet ideals any chance he has.
Capitalist!? Wtf are you smoking?
What exactly do you think occurred in Russia in 1991?
You have been trained so hard into a negative pavlovian response to all russian stimuli that you’re commenting this under a celebration of nazis being killed. Take a step back and reevaluate some things
Nobody mentioned Putin before you did
Here is another one of those idiots who thinks Putin is a communist.
Didn’t realize Putin was in power in the 1940s.
Is…is Putin in the room with us right now?
User Corporal_Punishment confirms hanging nazis is pro-Putin. Damn that’s more trust than i have about the denazification of Ukraine.
- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
Russian psyops in action. Putin spends a lot of money shaping hearts and minds in the west.
Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away The cynical con the Democratic Party and the F.B.I. carried out to falsely portray Donald Trump as a puppet of the Kremlin worked, and continues to work, because it is what those who detest Trump want to believe.
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Matt Taibbi: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Aaron Maté: Under Trump, the CIA is still covering up its Russiagate fraud
- Matt Taibbi: Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures Thanks to explosive new document releases, the Russiagate hoax is now exposed, commencing a new era that will be about accountability for the guilty
- Matt Taibbi: No Doubt Left: Russiagate Was a Cover-Up
What are you trying yo argue here, because I’m unsure? That the Russia doesn’t have propaganda in the West?
But the links you posted does not confirm that, e.g.
Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
For one, that it wasn’t much money at all and had no appreciable effect. Meanwhile the US spends billions on propaganda around the world each year, so much that no other country compares. And domestically, almost all of the influence comes from US corporations and wealthy Americans.
So you’re argument is that Russia is bad at making propaganda, underfunds propaganda or that USA propaganda is worse?
That’s, uh, rather weak argument.
And domestically, almost all of the influence comes from US corporations and wealthy Americans.
That had me stumped. We know the Russian budget for domestic media and narratives, it is not a small one, is that argument that somehow domestic government sanctioned propaganda is somehow better than a kleptocratic one?
And domestically, almost all of the influence comes from US corporations and wealthy Americans.
That had me stumped. We know the Russian budget for domestic media and narratives, it is not a small one, is that argument that somehow domestic government sanctioned propaganda is somehow better than a kleptocratic one?
Domestically as in within the US. Americans aren’t being influenced by spooky foreigner actors on the other side of the world. It’s coming from inside the house.
Americans aren’t being influenced by spooky foreigner actors on the other side of the world
Literally the link you posted contradicts it
Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
I feel like we’re going in circles. Happy New Year!
Cppe
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What exactly is “pro-Putin” about the soviets killing Nazis? Why do you talk like that?
Sorry. I can’t speak to you because .ml censors users. The only place on Lemmy that I’ve experienced censorship. Have fun with that.
Kind of a self-own, if you ask me. The modlog is public, it’s mostly you complaining about communists or having a persecution complex.
Nah dawg. I called out .ml and .ml doesn’t like that. Again, only place on Lemmy I’ve experienced censorship. It’s kind of like the /r/conservative of Lemmy. If your comment doesn’t fit the narrative, it’s censored.
That’s why .ml has the reputation it has. Have fun.
You know your mod log is public, right? You get “censored” by even Lemmy.world for how often you break the rules, tell other users to get fucked, etc.
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But how about Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?
What are you trying to argue here? The OC was removed and you just listed a lot of non aggression pacts - with Polish ones in red for some reason?
But how about Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? You know that Soviet and Nazi empires were working closely betwen 1939 and 1941?
And they already agree how to split europe between Soviet and Nazi empire.
There was no “soviet empire.” The communists spent the decade prior trying to form an anti-Nazi coalition force, such as the Anglo-French-Soviet Alliance which was pitched by the communists and rejected by the British and French. The communists hated the Nazis from the beginning, as the Nazi party rose to prominence by killing communists and labor organizers, cemented bourgeois rule, and was violently racist and imperialist, while the communists opposed all of that.
When the many talks of alliances with the west all fell short, the Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon. Throughout the last decade, Britain, France, and other western countries had formed pacts with Nazi Germany, such as the Four-Power Pact, the German-French-Non-Agression Pact, and more. Molotov-Ribbentrop was unique among the non-agression pacts with Nazi Germany in that it was right on the eve of war, and was the first between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It was a last resort, when the west was content from the beginning with working alongside Hitler.
Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:
If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.
Not only that, but it was the Soviet Union that was responsible for 4/5ths of total Nazi deaths, and winning the war against the Nazis. The Soviet Union did not agree to invade Poland with the Nazis, it was about spheres of influence and red lines the Nazis should not cross in Poland. When the USSR went into Poland, it stayed mostly to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades prior. Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis, standing idle? The West made it clear that they were never going to help anyone against the Nazis until it was their turn to be targeted.
It was not only military but also economy cooperation. Soviet union was selling oil and resources, Germany was selling machinery and equipment.
Correct, the soviets desperately needed finished goods that the west would not sell them.
Also before the pack, due to isolation of Germany after WW1, Germany cannot have a lot of tanks, and army and so on, also western countries were not very happy about cooperation with Soviet Union.
Treaty of Rapallo 1922. Not only normalizing relations between Soviets and Germany, but also allows Germany to secretly train army in the Soviet union. After Hitler came to power in 1933, relations cooled sharpy, and military cooperation was reduced.
Yep, the west destroyed Germany and invaded the USSR, so it was unsurprising that pre-Nazi Germany had ties to the USSR. In fact, the west loved the Nazis more than pre-Nazi Germany.
Of course, after Germany attacked Soviet Union, all the cooperation stopped, and both sides were killing each other POV without any mercy
Yep, the soviets beat the Nazis. Communism is inherently anti-fascist, and fascism anti-communist.
Remember, one of the key things that build german power, was cooperation with Soviet Union. Before Hitler it was very big economic and military cooperation, then military element was reduced (but not stopped, one of the result was Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) but the economic cooperation between Nazis and Soviets was still going on for a long time.
After Hitler took power, it was the west that cooperated and traded with the Nazis the most, even during WWII.
why are you here fash?
But how about Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? You know that Soviet and Nazi empires were working closely betwen 1939 and 1941?
