You can also have auto tiling in KDE https://codeberg.org/Serroda/fluid-tile
KDE is a LOT lighter than it used to be. The migration to plasma was ugly but they definitely got their shit together. Resource wise, it’s fine. You can run it in a pi.
GNOME is unapologetic resource wise. It’s like living with an asshole roommate that doesn’t understand why everyone hates him. It’s not getting better. KDE is.
I used KDE early on… around SuSE 7.3. It was a trash fire for a long time. Wildly unstable, would take so long to compile it was basically a meme in the community before memes existed in mainstream, and it was like every single random idea was implemented. Zero cohesiveness. Thumbed their noses at any kind of UI/UX standards. Gnome, of all things was the more solid option if you wanted a “desktop.” Weird to think about considering how that ended up. It has come a longgggggggggg way. Still not for me but after messing with it recently I was pleasantly surprised.
I changed to tiling about a decade ago. The pain of switching now would never be worth it. I don’t think I’ve tweaked a config in several years. Shit just works. As always, to each their own.
Never liked the look of KDE. It is nothing to do with the tech or features. I think qt is a very solid foundation and my current desktop is built on Qt/QML. KDE just feels Windows-ish somehow and that’s probably part of what makes it great for a lot of people. That is a huge win for Linux adoption. Just not for me.
I always liked Gnome. It was simple and felt fresh even though I hate gtk/gobject etc. And I still keep Gnome as a backup but it think development is being held back by being built on layers of shit.
After a long time going back and forth I think I am all in on Niri now. Regular tilers never worked for me but somehow scrollers do. It is weird how much of a difference it makes for me. It is possible to build a complete desktop now with Quickshell and a bit of a backend for some services which makes the Gnome desktop and Plasma look crazy over engineered and I don’t know why the Cosmic people even bothered. I don’t see how Gnome can keep up as its is such a horrible system to program. DankMaterialShell is reasonably usable for starters but I might even start working on something. It looks like fun.
All main desktop environment users triggered in 3…2…1…
But seriously, as a KDE Plasma user, I have to note it’s extremely customizable. It doesn’t have to look or behave like Windows at all, it’s just a default.
An entirely different look? Sure! All sorts of completely customizable shortcuts? Yep! Tiling? If you so wish!
The thing that made Plasma my forever choice is that whatever I want to make it, it delivers. It has settings for everything.
Here are just two examples of the non-standard KDE looks by the way:
Is the left panel in the first screenshot just a bunch of System Monitor widgets stuck together? Or is it a different widget that displays all this information in this way?
The windows approach isn’t for everyone but there’s a pretty solid consensus that nobody does it better than KDE. (I mean the Cinnamon people have an opinion but it’s doesn’t matter because reasons)
The reasons projects like this work at all is the pressures are different form the Apple and windows shit. Microsoft and Apple release one UI for their full computers and it has to work for as many people as possible. That sounds great until you realize you are locked in a room with a bunch of boomers wondering why this HOA only has installed 7 speed bumps on this street.
IDK what y’all are on about. KDE + Khronkite uses very little RAM. There are a few background things you can disable if you don’t need them to make it even leaner.
It also just works, with so many integrations, all maintained for you.
My brief foray into discrete WMs like Sway was nostop “oh, it doesn’t have a WiFi manager? Oh, no sharing? Oh, no…” and I ended up having to install a bunch of stuff manually, manually configure it all, tie them together with some scripts and services that break with updates, and find out I did a no-so-great job because I haven’t spent literally thousands of man hours in integration and ended up using a lot of extra disk space and RAM anyway!
Breathes.
So yeah. Big DEs are nice. And lean, mostly.
The one thing I have to make leaner on every clean Plasma install is KSearch or what it’s called. searching for programs is WAY slow with all the search functionality enabled
Yes, for window managers, it’s worth finding a good strongly opinionated distro or script to start with, so you don’t have to hunt down and configure a dozen tools.
ML4W, Dank Linux, Zirconium, Omarchy come to mind
baloointensifies 👀
Unused ram is wasted ram. Change my mind
“i paid for the whole RAM imma use the whole RAM”
–me in 2010 using console commands to turn off all the particle effects in Portal so that I could boost my fps to ~20 w/ minimum settings (the laptop did not have a graphics card lmao)
This applies when RAM is used as temporary cache or something that can be instantly freed the moment it is needed otherwise. This doesn’t really work for justifying higher RAM use by KDE, unless you would never need that RAM for anything else anyway.
I use KDE because it is good, though. Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Firefox without any website loaded uses more RAM than a full Plasma session.
And KDE can be even more efficient if you go into the settings and tweak things a bit, turning off some unnecessary features that are on by default.
Which features? Asking because I switched recently to Linux.
Which features are unnecessary?
Well, depends how you’re using it. In my case, for example, I don’t have a printer, so I could turn off the entire print manager system/service and save a bit of unnecessary RAM. And if you’re trying to be economical about RAM usage, things like fancy window decorations, window animations, and other purely aesthetic stuff like that can of course go. But, really, what features are necessary versus unnecessary will depend on you and what you’re using your computer for.
Or did you just mean what features does KDE have?
In that case, the answer is basically, all the features. Like, KDE is the quintessential ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ desktop. You name it, they have it … or it can quickly and easily be added. Any feature you can think of from any other OS or desktop, chances are KDE already has it or at least can do it with just a little tweaking.
For an example, I think my favorite feature would be the ability to set custom window rules for each application or even each sub-window within an application. Setting rules that dictate the size and placement of that app’s windows, their transparency, which virtual desktop they open in, whether they show up in the taskbar or not, whether other windows can cover them up or not, etc. I use those rules extensively in my workflow to make sure each app always goes exactly where I want it on my multiple monitors, stays there, and behaves just how I want it to. (For example, I want my system monitor to be 80% translucent in a certain corner of the screen. I want my timer app to always stay on top, and in a particular location on a particular screen, I want my time tracking spreadsheet open on all desktops, but always in the background so it never covers any other window, and not cluttering up the taskbar. I want the terminal to always open maximized on my left monitor, and for it to be 100% visible when active, but 80% translucent when not active. With window rules, I can make all of that happen.)
Which features are unnecessary I meant. 😁
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Yep. KDE is feature-rich, but it’s also highly optimized these days, and the RAM usage is actually competitive with the best of them.
You can get RAM usage lower on a very stripped down, barebones system, but if you want a full ‘normal computer’ desktop experience that has all the things you’d expect a computer to have, you’d be hard-pressed to find one that uses significantly less RAM than KDE. (Yes, there are some that get lower … but not a lot lower. And unless you’re running on some extremely limited hardware, are those extra 20MB of RAM really going to make a difference in your everyday life?)
Also, higher ram usage by programs makes it less likely that their actively used RAM (ie what it is actually currently using) fits in your CPUs caches, making them run slower.
It’s just really oversimplifying memory usage. OS designers had that same thought decades ago already, so they introduced disk caching. If data gets loaded from disk, then it won’t be erased from memory as soon as it isn’t needed anymore. It’s only erased, if something else requests memory and this happens to be the piece of “free” memory that the kernel thinks is the most expendable.
For example, this is what the situation on my system looks like:
free -h total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 25Gi 9,8Gi 6,0Gi 586Mi 9,3Gi 15GiOut of my 32 GiB physical RAM, 25 GiB happens to be usable by my applications, of which:
- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
used), - 9.2 GiB is currently in use for disk caching and buffers (
buff/cache), and - only 6.1 GiB is actually unused (
free).
If you run
cat /proc/meminfo, you can get an even more fine-grained listing.I’m sure, I could get the number for actually unused memory even lower, if I had started more applications since booting my laptop. Or as the Wikipedia article I linked above puts it:
Usually, all physical memory not directly allocated to applications is used by the operating system for the page[/disk] cache.
So, if you launch a memory-heavy application, it will generally cause memory used for disk caching to be cleared, which will slow the rest of your system down somewhat.
Having said all that, I am on KDE myself. I do not believe, it’s worth optimizing for the speed of the system, if you’re sacrificing features that would speed up your usage of it. Hell, it ultimately comes down to how happy you are with your computer, so if it makes you happy, then even gaudy eye-candy can be the right investment.
I just do not like these “unused RAM is wasted RAM” calls, because it is absolutely possible to implement few features while using lots of memory, and that does slow your system down unnecessarily.- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
I got plenty of ram. We’re using it.
I read this same principle in an arch or gentoo forum/manual. I can’t even think of an argument against it tho? Unused anything is wasted by definition isn’t it? I know I’m missing something obvious somehow
The problem with the simplified phrase is that your computer is expected to run more than one program at a time.
If you are only running one program, it should certainly use all the RAM of your system.
However, your desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, game console, etc. all run hundreds or thousands of programs at the same time. Each individual application should optimize RAM usage so the whole system can work together.
Another commenter in the chain talks about disk caching, which is what the phrase “unused ram is wasted ram” came from
It’s been coopted by application programmers who don’t want to optimize their software
Well, e. g. unused weapon is not really waste, is it?
what? yes, an unused weapon is still a wasted weapon. I know I’m missing something tho
Maybe it is a wasted weapon, but is it really a waste? Can weapon be considered wasted?
Can we try a different example or a declarative statement that negates my implied claim that in any case where a thing is unused, it must be categorized as waste by definition? The previous questions seem obviously clarifying of nothing. I know they’re probably clarifying once your point is known, but because the point remains unknown to me, I can only perceive them as empty Socratic dialogue? I know it’s not, I’m just trying to express more definitively how confused I’m getting lol
XFCE for life.
I, too, hate aesthetics
XFCE has always seemed to cover most any “normal” desktop experience I’ve ever needed, still even beating Windows hands down (as if that’s difficult, especially these days).
Granted, I don’t use KDE Connect or … what ever else KDE has over XFCE. The styling options are fun, but I’m too old to care about style these days.
I have NOT compared them to confirm any of the supposed lesser resource usage of XFCE, so if you’re going to roast me, tell me why (preferrably with direct data so we can all know).
XFCE is great, although a little stale and slow to evolve. I used it for many years. Still remember when Thunar finally got thumbnail previews.
I just prefer tiling windows managers idk
I used TWMs for a long time but I eventually switched back to stacking WMs. Its sort of hard to go back but when I was using TWMs, I’d spend more time tweaking things than anything else
KDE Plasma can do that, too, via a KWinscript: https://codeberg.org/anametologin/Krohnkite 🙃
On a more serious note, this is a genuine recommendation. I’ve been using Krohnkite and similar scripts for a few years now, and they’re absolutely fine, especially since Plasma 6 introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which they just have to configure.
Especially for newbies wanting to try out tiling window management, without having to figure out a minimalist environment like a bare window manager, this is a great entrypoint IMHO.right? I thought twms were almost exclusively for workflow efficiency only and this was like 15 years ago lol
I like tiling window managers, because I run out of screen real estate and actually close windows. On a regular window manger, I will open dozens of windows and keep them open for many sessions.
They’re for us dorks who like to like to chase efficiency in both screen real estate and keyboard navigation. A nice TWM combined with either a 21:9 or (my personal favorite) 16:18 ratio is pure bliss.
Just give me more monitors and I’m happy.
Give me one big monitor and I’ll set up 10 virtual desktops to switch between on it and I’m happy
That’s fine. I’m running two DualUps (16:18) with a TWM, and it’s amazing. I wish they weren’t a discontinued display, or else I’d add a third.
So that’s effectively 2 monitors in a single case?
Stop, I can only get so erect.
It’s literally two panels without a bezel between. You can run full-screen with one input, or go into PIP mode and drive each individual panel with a different input.
And apparently discontinued. Goddammit.
Ah, a fellow DualUp evangelist. it’s a pity they didn’t catch on that much.
It really is a shame. I think right out the door being only 60hz probably hurt their adoption. But really, the ratio just doesn’t shine with your average, floating WM that most users are only accustomed to.
I’m not a fan of TWMs so I use this: https://store.kde.org/p/2334027
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It’s astonishing how little RAM KDE needs for its features.
my ram usage with no apps open is 12 to 15 gigs. ultranarine kde
Idk about little. I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.
That seems odd. I’m on fedora KDE and from memory (excuse the pun) I sit at about 1.7GB usage at startup, and that’s with a few autostarted apps like joplin and pcloud. I don’t think I’ve seen Windows 11 that low ever, though I’ve hardly ever booted into it in the last 2 years.
I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.
Windows compresses RAM these days, not sure if Fedora does by default. Also, by itself Windows is surprisingly RAM efficient. I think it’s a holdover from Windows 8 which was developed for tablets when Microsoft tried competing with iPads.
The problems arise when web views like the news widget load. Then all the past optimizations no longer matter.
Nobody here was talking about PedOS until you brought it up Comrade
yeah, kde is da best… i tried to use some of the others but kde just works so much better
Love KDE.
KDE is premier for a modern system, but I have a handful of low-power devices where XFCE or LXQt are a lot more useful despite disliking their interfaces.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
What’s this device in your scale from old doghit to old mid-range?
Runs a full Plasma session just fine. The problem isn’t the desktop, it’s the web browsers, especially Firefox. Falkon runs OK.
firefox eats ram, but steam web process are worse. computer slow? kill steam. idk what browser engine it is but long term steam being open is bad.
I was actually just considering trying out a different DE like Cosmic or a compositor like Hyprland, but idk if it’s just a “grass is greener” thing or not. KDE’s got a lot going on for it and switching between QT and GTK is a pain, and I’ve never used a compositor so idk what to expect.
Try Niri with danklinux.com It’s super easy to install and lots of fun to use.
Any reason to choose Niri over Hyprland?
Thanks! I’ll check it out!
I switched my work PC to Pop a couple months ago and seriously gave Cosmic a try.
I had issues with it remembering screen positions and monitor settings would get reset to default on every boot. I installed KDE last week and it was like changing to a comfortable pair of shoes. Everything magically started working exactly how it should.
Cosmic is still beta but I’m excited for it none-the-less as I use Gnome with all the cosmic extensions today. I just find that KDE feels dated and limited and Cosmics ease of customizability is very appealing
Cosmic left beta months ago.
Is Epoch1 considered post beta? None-the-less, it’s an early release of a pretty aspirational DE. Give it a year or two and check back for something stable
Yes, it is https://www.howtogeek.com/cosmic-desktop-for-linux-exits-beta-with-pop-os-24-04/
I agree with you it’s early, and not mature. Got a lot of growing to do. I recently tried it out and I think it is pretty nice for an early version but I really need a lot more customization to consider switching to it.
I guess that’s the only reason I’m considering trying something else, KDE is great because it’s got so many options, but also it’s got too many options you gotta mess with to get it looking just ok.
KDE is cool, but i was a heavy shortcut user even on Windows. Me discoovering Hyprland is akin to a drug-addict trying out heroine, because i can’t go back now.
What shortcuts does Windows have that KDE doesn’t?
