Transcript:

Two panel meme.

Top panel: Woman in the front seat of a car screaming at a child in the rear seat. She’s saying “Why can’t you just shutdown?”

Bottom panel: A child screaming “A stop job is running for Session c2 of user … (1:30 / no limit)”

  • hirihit640@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    5·
    2 days ago

    One of the reasons i like the new atomic/immutable distros is you can just power cycle with little worry of bricking your system, even if a system update is running.

  • nixukty@lemmy.zip
    322·
    3 days ago

    if my PC takes more than 15 seconds to shut down im flipping the power switch

  • ThunderComplex@lemmy.today
    86·
    3 days ago

    Idk if this is a hot take but „no limit“ should straight up not exist. Just set a limit and blow the whole PC up when it takes too long.

    • Björn@swg-empire.de
      1048·
      3 days ago

      That’s not really systemd’s fault though. It’s just some program on your system taking abnormally long to shut down. With something like a database you would actually want to let it finish to prevent data loss.

      • jj4211@lemmy.world
        2·
        2 days ago

        What I would call out systemd for is that it can make it difficult to know precisely what thing it isn’t happy with. Abstracting a mishbehaving process to “user session” when it could call out the offending process by name.

        Similarly, when it’s trying to decide the network is ‘online’, and by all appearances the network interface was configured, but systemd isn’t so sure, sometimes it’s hard to tell why.

        A lot of the bad experience with Windows similarly could be attributed to something workable, but the design obfuscates the underlying behavior. Systemd has been bringing some of that sentiment over, and that can be more aggravating.

      • remotelove@lemmy.ca
        20·
        3 days ago

        This happens, too. A burst of local brownouts killed an OPNsense firewall of mine once. (The hardware was fine. The data got wrecked.) The firewall would boot, or almost finish booting, and then another brownout would hit. After the third or fourth cycle, the poor thing was toast.

        I should thank the power company for free resilience testing.

              • sepi@piefed.socialEnglish
                7·
                3 days ago

                If only we could be so lucky. They don’t make Minutemans anymore.

                My house flooded once, had like an inch of water in the living room, and my Minuteman ups was just sitting there beeping cos there was no power.

              • Err(()).unwrap()@lemmy.worldM
                12·
                3 days ago

                A blackout is just a loss of power. Nothing complicated about it. There are obvious human and societal consequences, but as far as the infrastructure is concerned, a blackout usually means that protection devices have been tripped and the system has protected itself from greater damage.

                A brownout means that the electric grid (or interconnection), for some reason, can’t supply enough power to satisfy the demand, but protection devices haven’t tripped yet. It can result in momentary power losses, drops in voltage, drops in frequency, or some generators getting desynchronized with the rest of the grid. If reactive loads (like HVAC motors) go offline momentarily, they can cause spikes in power consumption, which can overload circuits and trip safety devices.

                A UPS needs to immediately switch to battery power when there are signs of an imminent power loss. A brownout might cause a consumer-grade UPS to switch on and off repeatedly, which the inverter circuit probably doesn’t like.

                This channel is run by a real civil engineer, he’s released some great videos about the challenges of maintaining an electric grid.

                • halcyoncmdr@piefed.socialEnglish
                  5·
                  3 days ago

                  This channel is run by a real civil engineer, he’s released some great videos about the challenges of maintaining an electric grid.

                  Practical Engineering is awesome. For those that don’t want to deal with YouTube, his content is available on Nebula as well.

          • remotelove@lemmy.ca
            4·
            3 days ago

            I did. All the important things have time to gracefully shutdown now. (Except my for my rack of 4 DL360’s, which need something a little more robust than a Walmart UPS. They aren’t critical and only exist to handle weird one-off projects anyway.)

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
        164·
        3 days ago

        That’s not really systemd’s fault though.

        Oh, but it is. Upstart and sysV will both assassinate everything after a point. This bullshit is entirely new, either by Systemd sucking, or Systemd allowing this shit (thus, sucking), where neither thing happened beforehand.

        I admit I rage when it’s starting or stopping and can’t win for all the losing – especially because “startup time” was the the main (unfounded) feature on the banner they waved around.

        I work with sysV and Systemd and shut each down on a. Regular basis, via tooling, for stuff like patching, so it’s often a horse-race to offline. The difference is often negligible, for new machines or established boxes with apps, and the main difference is sometimes Systemd fails its YOU HAD ONE job from time to intermittent time.

        I work in a team where Unix and Linux is ~15 very experienced admins, so don’t fret over the skills and experience question or the scale question.

        • Nalivai@lemmy.world
          3·
          2 days ago

          I don’t know, I don’t want them to be assassinated to be honest. If an app has something to do before finish, it’s beter it does it. If it’s some kind of bullshit, the app sucks and I don’t use it anymore.

      • mmmm@sopuli.xyz
        12·
        3 days ago

        Not sure about that. When I first installed Gentoo with OpenRC everything went fine, just the boot/shutdown times were a bit slower than with SystemD’s when it didn’t do this shenanigans. But when I started reading about the SystemD hype I decided to try it and it did this at random - and got fed up so went back to OpenRC and never experienced this again. Maybe a misconfiguration on my part or something but I didn’t do something out of what the manual said about how to set it up.

      • Venia Silente@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        91·
        3 days ago

        If it was really the program’s fault, why doesn’t it happen when I switch to sysvinit? (or maybe openrc, I haven’t tried that one)

          • lambisio@feddit.clEnglish
            3·
            2 days ago

            Not onl that but they usually remove the init script as well, so unless you go for archives you no longer have a sane mechanism for starting and stopping the service.

            Fortunately Debian has a orphaned-init-scripts package that can help alleviate that pain, as you can also use those scripts (or even better, openrc scripts) as skeletons to replace systemd service units.

        • Björn@swg-empire.de
          143·
          3 days ago

          Because you didn’t bother fixing the underlying issue but got lucky.

          Or these other inits are more brutal in their shutdown procedure, but I doubt that.

          • Venia Silente@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            43·
            3 days ago

            What “underlying issue”? The one in systemd?

            Everything works correctly (starting, shutting down under openrc / under sysvinit / manually / with killall)… except specifically systemd.

    • [object Object]@lemmy.ca
      30·
      3 days ago

      Ughh recently had an amd graphics kernel bug which would lock up some /proc file somehow

      You’d go “why are fabs at max” type ps or top and they would freeze. System monitor would freeze.

      “Okay, I’ll just reboot, this is fucked”, and systemd is just there:

      Luckily it’s patched now. Hopefully those hard reboots didn’t damage anything.

      • Kairos@lemmy.today
        11·
        3 days ago

        Hard reboots don’t damage anything but the OS state, and even that has been protected against the last 2 decades.

          • xthexder@l.sw0.com
            7·
            3 days ago

            Apart from static discharge, or a broken power supply, I don’t think there’s anything your computer could do to the SSD to actually break it. Worst case you just need to reformat it.

            (I guess if it writes to it constantly it could wear out, but that’s different than a hard shutdown)

          • Kairos@lemmy.today
            71·
            3 days ago

            Some computer components don’t protect against voltage loss and some OS components aren’t tolerant to sudden shutdown but we’re 99% the way there. Any of the two which don’t have protection at this point are complete garbage.

    • disorderly@lemmy.world
      28·
      3 days ago

      Why? You can bypass it immediately if it’s a one-off, or go update the unit configuration to have a short timeout if it’s a regular error.

      More likely though, it’s something that should actually be fixed, like a misconfigured fstab. Systemd is rarely the problem here.

    • lambisio@feddit.clEnglish
      3·
      2 days ago

      What, not any of the other stuff?

      Like the same locking wait message, but on startup because of wifi

        • jj4211@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 days ago

          The good old ‘network-online’ can just be a ton of fun. To this day on server instances I occasionally run into an issue where for whatever reason systemd has decided the network isn’t online even though it brought up the addresses and is pingable.

  • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.worldEnglish
    26·
    3 days ago

    I hope my installation of Mint doesn’t start acting up, because I don’t want to learn whatever it is half y’all are talking about.

    I just want it to work, and so far it has.

    The only problem I’ve had is nvidia driver updates breaking Blender. So, I need to restore and tell update to ignore that one.

    • kalkulat@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      2 days ago

      Got rid of Vista, installed Mint in 2012. Never a single regret. I am so good at Mint now, it’s hard to be humble.

    • reksas@sopuli.xyz
      1·
      2 days ago

      mine has started acting up quite badly,

      -from the start the internet has cut off randomly, likely due to driver issues or hardwareissue. Fixed only by complete restart. There seems to be no pattern, only that machine spirit gets angry if i use internet too much or sometimes just because i woke it up.

      -Sometimes when i start the pc it takes really long time to boot and just stays in black screen,

      -there are always kind of worrying error messages on startup and shutdown, something about rdseed being broken, something about data being lost, something about a thing hogging the processor and maybe switch to hq_unbound,

      -sometimes the pc just refuses to shutdown when shutdown and everything else goes offline but fans keep running.

      All of this has just slowly accumulated overtime, without me doing anything that should have caused it.

      Yet funnily enough, i’m STILL very much more satisfied than with windows that didnt have that much immidiate issues.

    • Deebster@infosec.pub
      10·
      3 days ago

      Same, my shutdowns take about about two seconds, although suspend can sometimes take about six seconds (but normally one).

      I’m on Gentoo, so it’s probably a leaner install than most.

        • Deebster@infosec.pubEnglish
          9·
          2 days ago

          So I should wish for my computer to start acting up so I can have an educational experience attempting to fix it? No thanks, there’s less frustrating ways to learn.

          Also, if you’re trying to go for a greentext-style formatting, put two spaces at the end of your first line.

        • Deebster@infosec.pubEnglish
          1·
          19 hours ago

          I’m still using shutdown -h now, even though the -h flag has been pointless for, what, 20 years?

          edit: looks like sysvinit’s shutdown still defaults to single-user mode, so I guess that muscle memory will still be useful if I ever use a Devuan or antiX box.

    • MintyFresh@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 days ago

      I’ve been using mint for years without learning a single thing about terminal command stuff. It just works. Granted I’m a pretty light user. Light gaming, high seas stuff.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 days ago

      Sometimes this just happens with systemd, it wants to manage every thing as a session and sometimes things running in the session don’t exit like systemd expects.

      Also, sometimes logging into a headless ssh session takes quite a while, because systemd is not super responsive to setting up the user session and ssh blocks waiting for that to happen.

  • lazynooblet@lazysoci.alEnglish
    31·
    3 days ago

    On Windows I get a “some apps are preventing shutdown…”. With a list of apps. The app that is stopping shutdown? It’s called “shutting down”. Wtf

    • slazer2au@lemmy.worldEnglish
      12·
      3 days ago

      Sometimes the list is empty and I’m like, well there is nothing in the list shut down you idiot before I pull the damn power out.

  • palordrolap@fedia.io
    21·
    3 days ago

    This actually got me to go track down the systemd service that has been responsible for being unresponsive and causing a 90-second shutdown delay way more often than it should.

    Do you really want technical details?

    In my case it’s the MPRIS service that’s supposed to provide playback control on media players and related software.

    … and so now it’s disabled to see what, if anything, breaks without it. So far, none of the media apps I regularly use seem to be affected (browsers, a computer emulator, DOSBox, VLC).

    It looks to be Bluetooth-associated based on the package it’s installed with, and I don’t need Bluetooth 99.9%+ of the time, so it might be a while, if ever, before I notice anything wrong.

      • palordrolap@fedia.io
        1·
        3 days ago

        What about it? I admit that I don’t know a great deal about systemd and all its subcommands - it took me a while to figure out how to disable that service properly, for example - but the manual seems to suggest that systemd-analyze is for startup processes, not shutdown.

        I’ll gladly take pointers on how to get it to say why a particular service hung on shutdown.

  • cannedtuna@lemmy.worldEnglish
    284·
    3 days ago

    Transcript:

    Top: A woman in a parked car screaming at a child in the back seat

    Caption: Why can’t you just SHUTDOWN ?

    Bottom: a child buckled in the back seat screaming back

    Caption: ᵢₘgfₗᵢₚA.cSₒtₘop job is running for Session c2 of user … (1:30/no limit)

    • JTskulk@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 days ago

      Recently I had to reboot to fix a zombie process (caused by a GPU crash, not sure if it was hardware or the driver). When shutting down systemd waited 2 minutes for all process to be killed and then another 2 minutes for the specific zombie process.

  • AceFuzzLord@lemmy.zip
    8·
    3 days ago

    I am lucky enough to not have had any problems with calling a shutdown… just now with a problem I recently learned where my desktop treats shutdown as reboot. Definitely gotta look into that.

      • AceFuzzLord@lemmy.zip
        2·
        3 days ago

        I think I figured out my issue, literally a few minutes ago. I’ve never really dealt with ethernet, so I just learned my bios might have some sort of “wake up on lan” setting enabled that stops me from fully shutting down.

        Why would I ever want something like that, though?

        • Nailbar@sopuli.xyz
          5·
          3 days ago

          Why would I ever want something like that, though?

          I should look into wake on lan for my media center so I wouldn’t have to run downstairs to the living room to turn it on if I want to browse my photo/video collection.

          I prefer keeping it off when it’s not in use.

          • lambisio@feddit.clEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            Wouldn’t it be more efficient in that case to have some sort of remote* suspend+resume? Saves you the hassle of the bootup and shutdown procedure, when suspend saves most of the relevant energy.

            [*] where “remote” can be “hook a tripwire from your room to the keyboard”, at least for the wakeup

            • Nailbar@sopuli.xyz
              1·
              2 days ago

              I guess I’ll need to look into that option too. Probably won’t look into neither, though. I’m lazy.

    • lost_faith@lemmy.ca
      15·
      3 days ago

      Used it a few times now, so much better than holding the power button.

      For users that are not aware: alt+print screen then one at a time with a few seconds inbetween press the keys above, switch the O for a B to reboot instead of shutting down

      • otacon239@lemmy.world
        20·
        3 days ago

        When I first used this trick, they sent me my black hoodie and green text projector in the mail as a prize.

      • OwOarchist@pawb.socialEnglish
        1·
        3 days ago

        This sounds a lot more difficult than just holding the power button for a few seconds. How is it better?

        (Though I guess it could be beneficial for some laptops that don’t have a traditional power button.)

        • volore@scribe.disroot.org
          8·
          3 days ago

          REISUB basically does the same thing but slightly more gracefully. It will still reboot through basically any lockup (I have yet to encounter one it didn’t work on), but it gives your machine the chance to settle some things before cutting the power.

          If a Linux machine locks up or freezes completely, use REISUB to restart it more gently than pushing the Power Button.

          Hold down Alt and the SysReq (Print Screen) keys, and then type R E I S U B, with 2-3 second delays between the key presses to give the commands a better chance to complete.

          R: Switch the keyboard from raw mode to XLATE mode
          E: Send the SIGTERM signal to all processes except init
          I: Send the SIGKILL signal to all processes except init
          S: Sync all mounted filesystems
          U: Remount all mounted filesystems in read-only mode
          B: Immediately reboot the system, without unmounting partitions or syncing

          source

          I suppose if you wanted to be extra quick and liked living dangerously you could just do alt + sysrq + R + B (I’m assuming switching the keyboard mode is necessary for getting the other commands to work during a complete lockup, but I could be wrong, you might only need B). But I wouldn’t recommend it, REISUB is plenty fast for me.

          There are other commands too, like alt + sysrq + F to summon the OOM killer.

          Lastly, and perhaps most critically, it also feels way cooler than just holding a single button. Comme ça: