Really goes to show the power of consequences. The working class can lose their livelihood if they don’t think about how they come across with care (and sometimes even if they do). A billionaire? No such thing.

Confederacy is an interesting choice. Probably more accurate than saying Nazi Germany, since it’s closer to already existing US characteristics/history. Though I have some misgivings about it because I could see liberals going “yeah, this is just the country being like the confederates, unlike us who would have been on the side of the union army,” while not understanding that the union army was still a settler colony army and far from a bastion of anti-racism and liberation; had it actually been such, it would have liquidated the racist elements of the US instead of allowing them to change form into a violent reaction to integration. I mean, it didn’t even truly wipe out slavery. It moved it to prisons.

I used to think Lincoln was such a cool guy. 😬 If he was alive today, I guess he’d be somewhere in the milquetoast reformist realm of Bernie Sanders. The broader world probably would have been better off if the US of the time had fragmented and stayed that way instead of holding together.

That’s totally fair. It is very trying times for a lot of people, more so I’m sure for the victims of imperialism. I try to hold onto hope about it and remember that we are part of what makes change happen, not just the inertia of things. But I am also personally just tired a lot and sometimes probably sound more hopeful in words than I actually feel. The pain of not growing up with much of a sense of community is something that drives me to try, but it also leaves me feeling more isolated and dismayed than I would probably otherwise be.

So yeah, I don’t know. I wish I could be like, “Look over here though, we’re getting wins” maybe just cause I wish I could be boosting moral or something idk.

I think your frustration with the US is very understandable. It’s been world terrorist organization since the end of WWII and was doing various kinds of horrible shit before then as well, going back to its roots of genocide. And then for people living there to be too often arrogant on top of that, as if they are superior and not the bombs the country uses, is galling.

That said, as a USian, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do about the Epstein stuff. But I’m already of an ML mind, so although it’s uniquely shocking and horrifying, it doesn’t move the needle much on how I already understood the nature of the capitalist/imperialist class. I mean, the genocide perpetrated by israel, propped up by the US, that has been going on for a while. And it’s worse than this. Mass murder of kids, along with adults.

I’ve always cared about others, but society has never taught me how to stand up for them properly and I don’t expect it to do ever do so in its current form, knowing better now how it operates. The worsening contradictions and conditions, the increased internal repression, violence, and racial profiling from ICE, are forcing some people to learn though. Forcing them to learn the same kind of lesson that every other oppressed group in history has learned, that if they have arms and you don’t, you need arms or you aren’t going to last. When that’s going to reach a tipping point, if it does in time, I don’t know.

Just know there are people here who care. But I wouldn’t blame you for a second if you’re frustrated with their seeming inaction. Talk is cheap, as the saying goes. Except when you’re a multi-billion-dollar propaganda arm of a global empire, then I guess talk can get expensive, but that’s a whole other matter.

a steady rise since 08

Economic decline correlated with an increase in state violence.

Really syncs up well with an understanding of capitalism and its contradictions.

Ohh I get it, so you meant like higher in the sense that the US numbers are worse, even accounting for much of Tiananmen losses being military. With your first post, I thought you were doing the “but what about bajillion killed in Tiananmen Square thing” for a moment there. 😅 Glad that wasn’t the case.

In case you are serious:

https://fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/

https://liberationnews.org/revolution-and-counter-revolution-remembering-tiananmen-34-years-later/

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Apparently it’s The Nation magazine trying to nominate them: https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/the-nation-nominates-minneapolis-for-the-nobel-peace-prize/ | https://archive.ph/i0fLm

People can read for themselves and judge, but to me it reads like liberal pacifism and a publicity stunt to corral perception and support for the resistance there into pacifism:

With their resistance to violent authoritarianism, the people of Minneapolis have renewed the spirit of Dr. King’s call for “the positive affirmation of peace.”

Through countless acts of courage and solidarity, the people of Minneapolis have challenged the culture of fear, hate, and brutality that has gripped the United States and too many other countries. Their nonviolent resistance has captured the imagination of the nation and the world. Renee Good’s widow has said, “They have guns; we have whistles.” Those whistles alert the residents of Minneapolis when they are threatened. But they have done more than that. They have awakened Americans to the threat of violence that extends from governments that unjustly and irresponsibly target their own people.

The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., who served as The Nation’s civil rights correspondent from 1961 to 1966, said when he received the Peace Prize in 1964 that the award recognizes those who are “moving with determination and a majestic scorn for risk and danger to establish a reign of freedom and a rule of justice.” King believed that it is vital to illustrate “that nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation.”

Okay, not “sterile passivity” but they promote a quote about whistles vs. guns? Come on…

And notice how they don’t name these “too many other countries.” Which are the other countries, The Nation? Which ones? I can’t trust western journalism to have reliable views there…

I am reminded of an Irish Catholic phrase I once heard, “May the Lord be takin a likin to him… real soon.”

Assuming we even get to full fledged elections without things coming apart first, likelihood is they will run on decorum and following the constitution, without meaningfully challenging policy, and will faceplant as a result. It’ll probably go something like:

Dem candidate is asked “A lot of voters are concerned about ICE, do you oppose it?” “I support following the constitution that our founding fathers laid out-” “But do you oppose ICE?” “I think we should be following legal procedures and blah blah blah.”

So yeah, I expect nothing meaningful from them.

Thanks for looking into it. I had a feeling something was off, with it seeming to use a picture of China to represent “capitalism bad”. Like… why not a picture of the US?

But even if it’s bad for the US, the global south would really benefit from a civil war in the US. A temporary benefit, though, as if the reactionary side wins, we can expect the US doubling on war and imperialism, as they wouldn’t have an opposition.

The damage from a civil war would accelerate the decline (if not collapse) of the US, and by extension, its imperialism. Even if the reactionary side “won” such a thing (which would only ever be a temporary victory, as the resulting unresolved contradictions would continue to produce problems), they would have a weakened infrastructure and populace with which to wage imperialism. The perfect storm conditions of post WWII for the US are never coming again. What it still has is the benefits it set in place then and those are in decline.

Not to say we should think things will be easy. Just that I don’t see any outcome in which the US re-assumes, or becomes stronger than, its peak of power. As far as I can tell, the transparent mob boss handling of empire is a desperate attempt to cling on, which is, along with active education efforts from anti-imperialists, helping to unravel decades of divide and conquer propaganda in real-time.

The decades as weeks don’t stop coming, huh.

That would require a disciplined, organized, armed, and educated group of people doing the protest, and then dealing with him in that way would need to be a calculated move. The fascists get away with what they do because the police and military are largely on their side; because the police and military are their own brand of fascist. And those fascists have lots of guns. Dealing with that problem isn’t as simple as making a few rando “influencer” fascists scared to do a nazi salute in public.

In other words, I don’t think what you’re describing is primarily a “lib” problem, even if liberalism does contribute to the problem. It’s more a problem of the masses not yet being prepared enough for what is needed to overcome. The institutional liberals (e.g. in congress) failing to do anything is a different problem because they do have some actual power. Some random people at a protest don’t in the same way.

In general, people need to stop having faith in anything to do with their rights and go into this stuff assuming that the fascists are going to do anything ranging from shooting at them to provoking them like this guy tried to do, and prepare accordingly, i.e. expect to be mistreated and plan for it. Don’t expect them to “play fair” by any stretch of the imagination and don’t think that some clips of being brutalized by the state on camera while protesting non-violently are going to fix things. It has its place in raising awareness about the violence of the state, but 2020 showed how little that could move the needle on its own.

I honestly don’t know how to respond to this. I tried to start writing some stuff, but it feels like we’re talking about two completely different things.

• I’m not saying it can be changed to whatever at any time, but rather that it is capable of adapting to a certain degree and often has to in order to continue. Certain core beliefs are going to stay largely the same, else a given religion stops being the religion that it is and becomes some other religion.

• Religion does have things to offer that secularism doesn’t; at least insofar as we’re talking about modern nihilistic secularism under capitalism (secularism under a socialist state may take on a different character, I don’t have the benefit of living under one to know very clearly on that). It’s been a while so he could be sus in views, I don’t know, but years back in my lib days, I remember watching a talk by Alain de Botton where he goes over the ceremonial and community aspects of religion and basically argues that these serve a purpose that purely secular life lacks. I’m not expecting you to go find that and watch it, but it stands out to me as a point of contention on the issue and I think it’s a valid one. And based on my personal experience with religion people and with certain kinds of people (people who are more drawn to tradition, ceremony, etc.), I’m inclined to believe that whether it’s technically religion or no, some people are going to find ways to do things in a manner similar to the solemnity and reverence of religion.

• We have to contend with the fact that there are billions of people who believe in a religion. According to a quick search, it would appear if the polling is to be trusted, the majority in fact believe in a religion. So I’m looking at this not just from the standpoint of what I’d personally prefer, but also what the current reality of it is. Although not everybody goes super dedicated into their religion, religious belief can be an extremely fervent and staunch thing, with some people willing to martyr themselves over their faith. It’s far from arbitrary. It’s just that it’s not more powerful than material conditions and the barrel of a gun. That doesn’t mean religious people are going to happily and easily give up religion and replace it with nothing.

It’s not about coping. The bible is a book written by human beings with words that can be changed and have been changed and passed through languages and institutions of power. Nobody actually goes by all of what it says literally, even if some of them claim to act on various parts of it based on their particular interpretation. Even those who believe some kind of divine inspiration is involved in the bible would have to admit, on inspection, that it can’t all divinely be inspired to full correctness when it’s such a mess of portrayals and narratives.

I agree with your first sentence generally. I just don’t think religion has to be oppressive inherently, but it is instead largely a reflection of the dominant power structure. And I’m doubtful that it’s going to go away any time soon, even if oppressive power structures are dismantled, but that it will have to adapt in order to continue as I believe it has often done in the past.

Something I emphasized once to a religious person I know, which seemed to be taken well in their case at least, was that whether you believe in a specific religion or not, it’s undeniably going to get influenced by the society it exists within. The reason I bring this up is, maybe Jesus was a real person and was terrible, maybe he was a real person and was akin to a socialist but various interpretations of Christianity over time have warped what he said and did to make him look like something else, maybe he wasn’t a real person and is more of an amalgamation of figures and influences from the era. Whatever way it goes, people still have to choose what they’re going to support as okay or not okay right now and they can and should have a say in what their religion is like if they’re going to be a part of it. Otherwise, they are deferring a senseless amount of authority to the supernatural, akin to being something like a slave to it. Even religious teachings will often say that stuff happening on Earth is tainted by human “flaws” in some way - that’s going to include teachings themselves! When people cede power to an institution run by human beings and then believe that the institution is actually being magically run by a god somehow, they are just ceding power to other human beings with some denial involved. The institution should serve the needs of the people, in other words, not become a tool of justifying their oppression.

I’m sorry you’ve struggled so much with that, but I’m glad you’ve consistently found help on here and on hexbear. ❤️

As shitty as it is, it makes a kind of sense to me why Christianity is in such a dismal state: in order for an institution that influential to be allowed to exist under capitalism and imperialism, it gets warped into another extension of it. Or in the best case, such as the Catholic Church, might do some stuff for charity but gets defanged of any revolutionary potential. Though “best case” feels weird to say in reference to the Catholic Church when also considering its history of abuse. As I understand it, they are being more diligent now with hiring standards and the like to try to stop the problem from continuing, but that doesn’t undo the damage already done.

Anyway, yeah, a Christianity under communism would probably look much more like the stuff about “when I was hungry, you gave me to eat; when I was thirsty, you gave me to drink” kind of spirit of it. I still wouldn’t personally believe in the Christian faith, but it’d have to change from the capitalist attitudes to co-exist with a more AES state vanguard type of situation.