Apple removed ICEBlock reportedly after direct pressure from Department of Justice officials. “I am incredibly disappointed by Apple's actions today. Capitulating to an authoritarian regime is never the right move,” the developer said.
Except we aren’t talking about the law. We are talking about corporations that sell you something and then retain control over it.
You have no say in the process, you have no representation. These are not rules that we as a society have determined to be in the best interests of all of us. These are unilateral decisions placed upon us. You have no recourse if you disagree other than don’t use the thing.
Guns don’t prevent you from doing anything. You still have the capability to do whatever you want with the thing. However, if you use it in a manner than harms someone else, in a way that we as a society have proposed, voted, and created laws prohibiting, then you deal with the consequences. But that is very different from having something in the gun that prevents it from taking ammo from another manufacturer. Or making it unable to shoot unless you pay a monthly fee.
Right, you can’t break the law. Gun manufacturers are very explicitly not responsible if you break the law with one of the items they manufactured.
This is more like the gun manufacturer coming back two years after you bought it and preventing you from using bullets from a vendor they don’t approve of.
No it’s not. When you buy a gun you’re not buying it with web connected software running it that is constantly updated and changed, and is actually a selling point, that you knew about when you bought it, and that you agreed to.
I feel like I am feeding a troll, but let me break this down:
If you have a gun, you can point it at anything and pull the trigger, you don’t need the permission of the manufacturer to do so.
Not with a phone, you CAN’T load any software you want into your phone.
That’s the difference, you can do whatever you want with a gun, and if you mess up, you go to jail. You can’t do whatever you want with your phone, only what the corp.s (apple) allow you to.
This isn’t true in regards to basically anything that runs closed source software. You can do whatever you can, but there are plenty of things you might want to do that you can’t do. That doesn’t mean you don’t own it.
Nah, you control your google powered phone as in you can decide to sell it, throw it away, repair it, etc. You don’t get ownership of the software that it runs though, or what that updates Google send your way. You can certainly choose not to update it, but you just miss out on anything that requires those updates - like access to the Google play services.
“Ownership” totally does mean it’s yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
That means you can do it, not that you should, nor that what you do won’t have consequences.
It just means your phone won’t stop you from downloading an unapproved app just like a gun won’t stop you from loading an unapproved bullet.
It means your gun has a safety mechanism you can unlock to shoot, as does your phone to download “unverified” apps.
It means you can sell either freely to someone else without it becoming bricked or the new owner losing any rights (lookin’ at you, Tesla cars).
It means defaulting on the loan will require the physical reposession of your phone or gun, and that neither will magically lock you out of using it using telemetry.
It means anyone with the right knowledge and tools can fix your phone and it’ll work, just like your gun.
It means your phone works for you, and not for someone else - just like your gun.
Your phone is a tool. Just like your gun. It can be used for good - and for bad.
What you do with it is up to you, and not up to it or its manufacturer.
It means you can shoot people with your gun, just as you can extort and blackmail people with your phone. Nothing, other than your own morality, the morals of society and therule of law are preventing you from doing bad things. Certainly not the will of the manufacturer.
Any forensic inquiry into a phone on a crime scene would be like that of a gun.
Any taking of your phone from your home or person would require a warrant - like with a gun.
Any inquiry into your phone’s contents and qualities should require outside tools - like a similar inquiry into your gun.
Your phone won’t have a special police-only history of what you’ve used it for - like your gun.
Your phone won’t report what you’ve been doing with it to 3rd parties without your consent - like won’t your gun.
Ownership of a phone doesn’t mean that the makers of said phone have to give you the source code and build in ways for you to be able to do things they don’t want.
Your own the device that does what it was advertised as. That’s it.
Yeah if you thought Reddit was delusional about things like rights and ownership you’ve come to the wrong place lol. Lemmy and blue sky are the only places in the internet that can make some of Reddit look even slightly intelligent.
You don’t own your device.
Wrong
“Ownership“ doesn’t mean “I can do whatever I want with it”.
edit: wow, Redditors are better at accepting the truth, lol
It should
you think people who own guns should be allowed to “do whatever they want” with them?
how many mass shootings do we already have each week?
Thats Apples and Oranges. Owning a phone is not like owning a a gun.
but the law is the law: just because you own something doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with it.
it’s illegal to kill someone with a smartphone, too
Except we aren’t talking about the law. We are talking about corporations that sell you something and then retain control over it.
You have no say in the process, you have no representation. These are not rules that we as a society have determined to be in the best interests of all of us. These are unilateral decisions placed upon us. You have no recourse if you disagree other than don’t use the thing.
Guns don’t prevent you from doing anything. You still have the capability to do whatever you want with the thing. However, if you use it in a manner than harms someone else, in a way that we as a society have proposed, voted, and created laws prohibiting, then you deal with the consequences. But that is very different from having something in the gun that prevents it from taking ammo from another manufacturer. Or making it unable to shoot unless you pay a monthly fee.
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No. We weren’t. This discussion was about phones and the software we are being allowed to install on them.
The law does nothing to restrict us in that capacity. The restrictions are imposed by the manufacturer of the phone.
You made the fallacious false equivalency of comparing that with guns and laws.
What makes you think the ICEBlock app removal is about the law or following the law?
The guy you’re replying to celebrated the political assassination of Charlie Kirk, so I wouldn’t bother If I was you.
Right, you can’t break the law. Gun manufacturers are very explicitly not responsible if you break the law with one of the items they manufactured.
This is more like the gun manufacturer coming back two years after you bought it and preventing you from using bullets from a vendor they don’t approve of.
No it’s not. When you buy a gun you’re not buying it with web connected software running it that is constantly updated and changed, and is actually a selling point, that you knew about when you bought it, and that you agreed to.
Taking away functionality is a selling point? What a load of bullshit.
They can do whatever they want with them, that’s why we have shootings.
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If they couldn’t, then they wouldn’t, but they obviously can, because they do. This is not complicated.
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I feel like I am feeding a troll, but let me break this down:
If you have a gun, you can point it at anything and pull the trigger, you don’t need the permission of the manufacturer to do so.
Not with a phone, you CAN’T load any software you want into your phone.
That’s the difference, you can do whatever you want with a gun, and if you mess up, you go to jail. You can’t do whatever you want with your phone, only what the corp.s (apple) allow you to.
…you just said it did. That was the initiation of this entire conversation.
What a fucking stupid moronic take. Go back to reddit
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If they don’t break the law then yes
So go pander to them.
If I own something, I can do whatever I like with it because it’s mine.
If I can’t do what I like, it’s not truly mine.
This isn’t true in regards to basically anything that runs closed source software. You can do whatever you can, but there are plenty of things you might want to do that you can’t do. That doesn’t mean you don’t own it.
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The state of having complete legal control of something;
Ownership is the state or fact of legal possession and control over property,
the act of having and controlling property
Control is a key part of ownership. If Google controls what you can install on a device, it isn’t yours.
Nah, you control your google powered phone as in you can decide to sell it, throw it away, repair it, etc. You don’t get ownership of the software that it runs though, or what that updates Google send your way. You can certainly choose not to update it, but you just miss out on anything that requires those updates - like access to the Google play services.
You’re licking those corporate boots awfully hard for someone calling themselves Freedom advocate.
And that will do wonders for the security that Google claims is the reason behind this change, won’t it.
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I love when newbie accounts think lemmy is reddit. Makes them easier to ignore.
Its also funny how they edit their comment on their downvotes because it upset them.
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“Ownership” totally does mean it’s yours and you can do whatever you want with it.
That means you can do it, not that you should, nor that what you do won’t have consequences.
It just means your phone won’t stop you from downloading an unapproved app just like a gun won’t stop you from loading an unapproved bullet.
It means your gun has a safety mechanism you can unlock to shoot, as does your phone to download “unverified” apps.
It means you can sell either freely to someone else without it becoming bricked or the new owner losing any rights (lookin’ at you, Tesla cars).
It means defaulting on the loan will require the physical reposession of your phone or gun, and that neither will magically lock you out of using it using telemetry.
It means anyone with the right knowledge and tools can fix your phone and it’ll work, just like your gun.
It means your phone works for you, and not for someone else - just like your gun.
Your phone is a tool. Just like your gun. It can be used for good - and for bad.
What you do with it is up to you, and not up to it or its manufacturer.
It means you can shoot people with your gun, just as you can extort and blackmail people with your phone. Nothing, other than your own morality, the morals of society and therule of law are preventing you from doing bad things. Certainly not the will of the manufacturer.
Any forensic inquiry into a phone on a crime scene would be like that of a gun.
Any taking of your phone from your home or person would require a warrant - like with a gun.
Any inquiry into your phone’s contents and qualities should require outside tools - like a similar inquiry into your gun.
Your phone won’t have a special police-only history of what you’ve used it for - like your gun.
Your phone won’t report what you’ve been doing with it to 3rd parties without your consent - like won’t your gun.
And so on.
As a non-american, using a gun as your comparison object is just so bizarre (and unrelatable).
Ownership of a phone doesn’t mean that the makers of said phone have to give you the source code and build in ways for you to be able to do things they don’t want.
Your own the device that does what it was advertised as. That’s it.
“A phone’s schematics are publically available, like those of a gun”
I can assure you, I’ve written no such thing in my original reply.
But that’s what it means. Or at least, it used to
it never meant that you can do whatever you want.
But possessing something indicates that you have rights over it that others do not. In this case, you have no rights that G doesn’t.
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Wrong
You can’t sew time.
Truth post. You don’t even have to enjoy the facts that you post. Lemmy is far too unhinged and emotional.
If you state any fact they don’t like, you are downvoted.
I lovingly embrace any and all ironic downvotes I will get.
Seeth with me ❤️
Yeah if you thought Reddit was delusional about things like rights and ownership you’ve come to the wrong place lol. Lemmy and blue sky are the only places in the internet that can make some of Reddit look even slightly intelligent.