Let me tell you a thing that is not often mentioned, which I think contributed to the rise of the American right we see today. In the us, unlike in Europe where freedom was economically tied to the rise of lower classes in their struggle against landowners and aristocracy, the notion of freedom implied a freedom from the norms of the majority. This is the old “frontier myth”. Then the prairie was settled, but that myth was entrenched. Then the internet came and opened up an unlimited and unregulated space for these cults and alternative views, and since the technological dynamics constantly drives everyone away from pain and towards pleasure, that is confirmation of existing beliefs, the “echo chambers” mushroomed. Because of historical baggage, the US was predisposed towards eccentricity, in a way. On top of this comes the fact that Congress has always had a very very low approval rating. It is epitomized by the representatives who read the phone book out loud, or filibuster, from the podium in order to sabotage the passing of legislation. At salaries paid by the taxpayer!! Then there is the annual shutdown ritual over the raising of the debt ceiling, which could have been avoided by switching from absolute numbers to a percentage of GDP. But it is a ritual, like the knocking on the door of the British parliament. So they keep it. But it adds an impression that they do nothing, that everything is jammed and that no representatives from different parties ever talk to each other over coffee, and that “hate” remains even after the cameras are off.
Can’t hear you because I’m rolling my coal you liberal wanting some clear air and water like a sissy you are. America!
Republicans did create the EPA but then they destroyed it
Nixon, at this point, would be a progressive Democrat. He was an absolutely legendary piece of human garbage, but he did care about the country and attempt to do big good things for it sometimes, in a way that most of the campaign-contribution-fueled crop of ghouls that are “congress” today do not. Reagan and Clinton really redefined the whole scope of what even being in charge of the country was supposed to mean.
I was genuinely surprised when I read that Nixon intend to “declare war on poverty” and end it by wanting to propose a bill for UBI. He was convinced by several positive studies for UBI presented to him, iirc. But it just so happens that an influential economist breaking grounds at the time, who goes by the name of Milton Friedman (the man who (in-)famously coined the phrase “greed is good”) convinced Nixon to abandon the idea. Although I don’t remember the exact arguments on how Nixon was convinced to abandon the idea of UBI.
Yeah. He actually kind of meant well. He was hampered by the fact that he was a flinty-hearted vindictive psychopath. But he did a bunch of stuff which there is literally no way to explain other than that he wanted to do something good for the [white] [Republican] [pro-war] people of the country [as long as they were nice to him at all times which is what he deserved].
He did great things. Terrible! Yes. But great.
All of these were fought for with literal blood well before any liberals decided it was in their interest to push legislation. Don’t delude yourselves by thinking the libs did these things out of the kindness of their heart.
I don’t disagree, but I think it’s pretty clear Lawrence is using the American colloquial definition of liberal rather than the academic definition.
Even if you use the academic version it makes sense. Liberalism is the default ideology in the USA. The majority of the population at any point will be Liberals.
“the American colloquial definition” is the American colloquial term for propaganda
Left leaning liberalism = liberals in the USA. It ignores the right leaning liberals and is flawed.
No, “liberals” “in the USA” = everyone on the left in America, which is wrong and bad because it ignores all of the anti-capitalist people and silences them by labeling them with an explicitly pro-capitalist Ideology. The left is (at the very least) liberals and socialists and some kinds of anarchists, there is a lot they have in common they can work on but calling them all “liberals” distorts reality in a consequential way.
e; Scpelling is hard sometimes
Not really. Civil rights absolutely, social security, kind of, the activists didn’t create the idea but they gave muscle to the labor movement to the point that FDR got elected in the first place and had the momentum so sure, clean air act and clean water act, you must be joking, those were just liberal government things. The things from that end of the spectrum are actually really good examples of why having a functioning government is a good thing even if it means “electoralism,” meaning it can’t all just be people in the streets fighting. You need both sides of the equation: The vigor and blood to push things forward, and then the paper and system to lock it in. Without either side of that, it doesn’t work.
More to the point, stop shitting on people who did good things. If you live in America, you benefit from all of the things on that list. Look for enemies elsewhere. This is the left’s favorite thing, to turn its guns exclusively on its own side, and it’s super good at it.
Yes, eco activists died for a lot of those movements too.
The point isnt to “turn guns on [our] own side,” it is to remind people that these movements and legistlations rest on the shoulders of giants, just like most everything else in our society
I really don’t think that Nixon was strongly motivated by eco activists. I mean, I get what you’re saying… like I said, the overall climate does make an impact on the “establishment” policies absolutely and the activism has to lead by about a hundred miles before the government starts catching up to it. I think on that front we’re saying more or less the same thing.
I think this type of thinking ends up being quite self defeating.
We should evaluate all politicians as vessels to carry out the will of the people.
When you consider them as such, not as people or entities to assign blame, as your goal is to be pragmatic, you look at their incentives and track records instead.
I think leftists often have this self defeating problem of being unable to stomach the fact that they will not get their ideal politician, and there will be no sudden uprising.
As a result, they often will criticize the politicians closest too them too loudly, ending up supporting “both sides” notions that cause voter apathy and let quite literally fascists win instead.
What I am saying is that we have to be pragmatic.
Particularly for the US, people have to realize that yes, while the DNC sucks, the democrats are the only practical, realistic way for people to actually end up winning.
Its long, slow, and no fun at all, but people have to support them publicly, and acknowledge their faults in ways that don’t dissuade voters from voting for them. They then must also vote in increasingly progressive candidates in primaries and local politics.
Anything else is simply grabbing a foot gun, because this imperfect system is very slow, and won’t change over night.
They are vessels that must be driven toward change under the threat of force, sure
Yeah. This whole thing where voting for someone is “falling in line behind” them is very weird to me.
Politicians are not your friends. Even ones I like, I don’t really look at as that I am “allied” with them. I’m just inputting that I want them in charge more than I like the other person; it’s sort of the last stage of the process of trying to control what my government might be in a position to do to me or do to other people in the world (for good or bad, often for bad).
Do these people go driving and decide whether the transmission “deserves” to be in third gear or second gear or whatever? Do they set “red lines” about when they will and won’t touch the steering wheel? Dude, the government is often terrible. Refusing to give any input to it until it gets better on its own seems guaranteed to be self defeating.
Whose blood do you think was being shed? Liberalism is the default in this culture. Those people dying were likely Liberals. There has never been a substantial enough number of leftists in the USA to be the drivers of most major policies.
I’d be curious to see a similar list for the Reich. Like a legitimate one though, where they actually try to list what they’re proud of. At the moment I can only think of a list containing a bunch of “cut taxes for the ultra wealthy.”
“fucked the middle east”
“revoked abortion rights”
“let millions of f****ts die of HIV”
“biggest prison population in the world - can I have a ‘hell yeah’ for modern slavery?”
If memory serves me right just about everyone in Congress supported the Iraq War both times.
Everyone except Bernie Sanders and a couple of other kooks. But yes, everyone else.
Young people don’t realize how far things have moved left in American politics in the last 20 years, with Palestinian people in congress now and socialists running for president, and even people having big protests now without instantly just getting tackled and arrested by the NYPD by the hundreds and then stuffed in a warehouse.
It’s still bad enough that I understand how people can’t grasp it and just assume “everything’s moving to the right all the time every year,” because that’s sort of what it feels like, but it’s not what’s happening.
It feels that way because conservatives have held most of the power for almost all of those 20 years.
I mean conservatives have held power since Carter. He was the last non-conservative president we had, he actually tried to reign in the CIA and get Israel to stop killing Arabs in a big way, among other things. Biden was actually way further left than the norm, if that tells you anything.
We took a massive tumble with Reagan/Clinton, and then ever since then, we’ve been crawling our way back up towards some kind of humanity in government an inch at a time.
Biden literally split with the democratic party to stop desegregation. He was always one of the most conservative dems.
Yeah, he co-sponsored the bill alongside Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond. He was giving speeches for segregation while Bernie was getting arrested at civil rights protests. That was pretty much my exact point: The Democrats were the segregation party up until an instant before Biden got his start, and then he went from that and the crime bill, to thirty years later doing all this semi-progressive stuff as president. He is certainly not left in any real sense, but he was raising corporate tax and working on climate change instead of getting up talking about “super predators” and wanting to bomb Nicaragua with congress’s full support and things like that.
It used to be “beat the Nazis,” “got the railroads built,” and things like that. There is value to having some conservative values in government. The problems with America actually don’t have a lot to do with partisan politics; it is that the right wing turned into Nazis, and the “left” wing of the establishment politicians turned into Roman senators too busy getting blowjobs to realize that people are starving in the streets and can’t afford their insulin.
I would actually be fine with Republicans of the John McCain / Dwight Eisenhower mold in government. If we could get rid of Mike Johnson and Nancy Pelosi (ideally by just dumping them into the Potomac), and have it be AOC and Adam Kinsinger, I’d be fine with that. The MAGA people are more overtly evil, but it’s not even really a party thing.
I remember seeing McCain on TDS before the 2000 election. He was fucking sharp then. Somewhere between then and 2008, he went off the rails and/or made a deal with the devil.
Yeah, 100%. I feel like maybe he lost his mind because of trying to become the president. Hunter Thompson talked about it, he said he saw it happen to a few different people, he compared it to a moose during mating season, just losing his mind to go after the goal.
Maybe being embedded into a party that became so depraved took some kind of toll on him… having to deal with Sarah Palin. My God, I can’t even imagine. But yeah, whatever it was I 100% agree, something happened to him.
McCain became a shell of himself when they saddled him with Alaska Annie (or whatever that Tina Fey character’s name was). He could have been a uniting figure, but instead the right decided to eat their own.
Their list is always the same, although much of it applies to very few people, and none of it enhances the actual lives of everyday people:
Cut taxes (not yours)
Saved unborn babies (at great risk to mothers)
Restored morality to government (pure horseshit, but they proclaim it loudly while destroying immigrant children’s lives, protecting pedophiles and posting videos of the president dumping feces on those who protest any of this).
Restored financial stability (not once in the past 75 years)
Cut inflation (Again, never happened.)
In short: They have no accomplishments, so they demean those of others and lie about their lack thereof.
2nd time liberals illusory truth effected what Radicalists praxied.
Stop spreading misinformation @[email protected].
