A lot of motherfuckers typing in code with a keyboard need a beating with said keyboard.
If a programmer can’t get a login form right they need permabanned from ever shipping another release.
I love FIDO logins and next to fucking no one implements them :(
Exactly
Passkeys ❤️
Website wants you to make a passkey, go to login but the entry form only accepts the user name, then you have to click next to password which may or may not accept the passkey.
If they arent on a USB stick, protected against being copied, they are only a single factor that instill false safety.
Depends on the system. The thing where your password manager is managing your passkeys? That’s a single factor unless it’s doing something tricky that none of them do.
When it’s the tpm or a Bluetooth connection to your phone? That’s actually two factors, and great.
alternatives to passwords are just excuses to harvest info
Not if it comes to hardware-based passkeys I would argue
It is quite normal to ask for an email address at registration even when using password based authentication.
*it has been become quite normalized
It was more or less the default many moons ago, then just a username became more common, now it is back to email or some third party login
Registration and login should be password less anyway. There’s alredy tech for doing it with cellphone or external hardware key.
Storing your password hash is just stupid and insecure
But you can lose that hardware or it breaks very easily.
Until you lose your cellphone or hardware key, that is.
Also, I will not pay any money for a thing just to authenticate myself with.
Until you lose your cellphone or hardware key, that is.
Same thing if you lose your password database or your master password.
Also, I will not pay any money for a thing just to authenticate myself with.
You’ve alredy paid for your cellphone and it is alredy equipped with necessary circutry
Yubikey. Done.
The pin system implementation is terrible at least for Windows, because it forces you to make a pin but not all websites do that so it’s easy to make a pin for one website but not realize that if you forget the pin and misenter it 10 times it locks the key permanently and you have to reset it, but that deletes everything and so you can end up in a situation where the yubikey is on your site account login but you dont have it now and you can get locked out.
As an autistic person I felt this in my bones. I cannot STAND email based authentication.
Or the obscure ways for 2FA/MFA. Passkeys are mostly cloud based. Yeah fuck no! The weakest Passkey is weaker than my usual random generated password, if the site don’t do any shady business and require a weak password. Hardware keys are luckily not pushed for usage. I don’t like them either. You require at least 2, for backup reasons. They also cost quite some money and they have zero auth. Just connect to usb and tap it. Also retrieving the backup and get a replacement for a defective one, takes some time.
Good old TOTP as 2FA is perfect, paired with a strong, random password. With my TOTP, I have an encrypted backup in my cloud, on my NAS, older backups in secure places and backup codes in several places. The TOTP App I use is open source and I have a mirror of the source code.
This should be enough security, if sites don’t screw up all the time. You can bypass 2FA all the time. Even the credit card company screwed up big time. Usually you get 2 separate letters, one with your pin and one with your card. Both came on the same day. Also I actually didn’t needed the pin in the first place. I was able to add the card to the app and see the pin there, without actually verifying anything, except the credit card number.
Maybe when passkeys are supported in my password manager, I will try it but so far it isn’t and switching is not an option, as it doesn’t support the features I need. There is an open issue for an alternative password manager, with that feature request and it has some people wanting it, but its still not added. But passkeys doesn’t fix the issue for me using stronger keys, it fixes the site owners to allow stronger keys but they are still not required to use it. Some devs are just weird. I’ve read one PR for an FOSS project I use, where someone wanted to implement a universal oath or such stuff, that would support all types of external authentifications. Nope, the dev refused the PR and they wanted to stay at the 2 proprietary implementations, for 2 services, even though this universal implementation would work with these 2 too. I can’t tell exactly what it was. I was experimenting with an auth service for my self hosted stuff, to not deal with several accounts and rights systems. This service was the first one which I wanted to switch and they didn’t wanted to support it, leaving me with the standard login.
Every hardware based key I ever used also required PIN, but as far as expense and backups, yes, for personal use the cost generally may not be justified. I got all my personal ones as a bundle that was on sale. For work I would argue that some businesses can easily justify the cost to create a rotating stock of hardware keys to deal with lost keys. Generally in that environment you have centralized PKI, where you can revoke the certificate on the lost key and then issue a new certificate on a new hardware key. This doesn’t help for all sign in methods tied to hardware keys, but can be very practical when implemented right.
I also agree on TOTP as the ultimate generic 2FA method, with several worsening options until the despised email or sms 2FA. I will also add that you can setup TOTP on modern hardware keys, where you must insert and complete PIN entry. The inconvenience is that you must have all your keys and password manager available at setup time for places that don’t support multiple TOTP codes.
You can force auth on hardware passkeys for every activation. A sort of local password. Much more secure, also if somebody is in possession of your passkey and you didn’t just loose it somewhere you would be fucked anyways.
I have three, one for home, one for backup, and one for travel. I can See why ppl. Are annoyed by that, but speaking of costs, you can get these starting from ~20 Dollars. Additionally, passkeys could and should replace passwords and not EB generally used as 2FA.
Also many password managers (incl. FOSS) do support Passkeys, but having them in your password manager makes them arguably useless. Same if you use 2FA on your phone and a password manager and your phone gets compromised somehow.
What password manager doesn’t support passkeys these days?
Or worse:
Use email link -> use password instead
Enter password
Now enter the code that we sent you your email…
2 factor authentication, only when you feel like it.
They might as well be piping the password to
/dev/null
The best I’ve seen was yesterday where a website had the log-in button greyed out after the password manager filled my creds in.
So I had to manually click both the email and password field. Just click them. Then it enabled the log-in button.
So someone took their time to write a piece of JS that said “If the user hasn’t focused both fields at least once, no login”. Literally why? Extra code that does nothing useful.
I was hoping passkeys would be the solution to this madness, but it seems to me the entire spec gives too much power to the OS Makers and too little to the users because “mUh AtTtEsTatIoN” so now I don’t know anymore
They inevitably didn’t write it for that reason. They wrote it to say the field is invalid until the user changes it to be valid after someone landed on the page holding the enter key down and instantly locked themselves out after submitting the form 50 times in 3 seconds.
Unless you know otherwise, it’s easy to think that “form interaction” is the same as “form changed”, and one of those is much easier to check.I’m unsure what you mean about passkeys. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention significant concessions to os makers and I’m pretty tuned in on the topic.
Oh, it gets worse. I’ve had some where I have to enter a character into the boxes before it would figure its shit out…
I’ve definitely run into that. Even more frustrating is when there was one particular site that forced me to actually delete the last character of my password and then retype it. Just focusing in the field wasn’t enough, I had to actually send it a keystroke. And Ctrl-V to paste the password in manually didn’t count. I suppose typing a random character at the end and then deleting it would have worked too.
When ctrl+v is disabled to “prevent brute force bots” or something ridiculous
I’ve seen this a stupid number of times. I wish I could remember which websites…
I used to have this problem with the payroll website ADP! So cursed
My utitlies website doesn’t let you login if the password field is autofilled by the browser. Whatever Angular-based form validation they are using doesn’t play nice with Firefox’s saved password feature. You have to manually type something in the password field, so I always add and remove a space from the password.
I sent an email to their support, hoping they would fix it, but they just responded saying that they can’t reproduce it.
Well, I can reproduce it. I even told you how. That sounds like a skill issue.
the user must be a human, so i imagine that being the rationale.
Recently finished a side project and I was glad I could go with pure login/pass auth. No email no oauth, just a pass phrase for account recovery. It’s refreshing and so damn simple.
Also This strange trend to split username and password on to two separate pages, or only showing the password field after confirming the username
That ones because users like choice. They need to look up who you are to know how you’ve chosen to authenticate. At least, that’s how it started. Some could be doing it because the big kids are, but that’s why the big kids do.
And they support choice because businesses want to use their login infrastructure and refuse to share. So you enter “[email protected]” and it forwards you to your institutional login.Came here to say that! For the love of God, stop with this nonsense!
- Username
- Password
- MFA
- Do the whole process all over again because the remember this device is on step 2 and it’s impossible to go back
Bonus stage 0: special login URL decided to crap out, and going back to any point in history automatically redirects to the error page that you can’t use to log in, so you need to keep going back and trying to copy the URL before it redirects becausw Firefox interprets pressing “stop” as “do whatever you want idk”
Fucking aws…
You forgot step 2.5: incorrectly identifying stoplights 6 times in a row.
Oh fuck, the stone piles -thing is the worst of those. Tiny images, badly generated so you can’t see shit, multiple rounds that have six or so images each round, you can’t make a single mistake, and you get to know did you make any mistakes only after completing all of the rounds. It’s straight up abuse
Once I had to try over five times and still kept failing, so I just gave up. I guess I’m not a human anymore
It’s a whole mini game sometimes. I hate them with every fiber of my being.
It took me years to learn that you’re supposed to do them very slowly. Otherwise it will keep bothering you to fill out more. Pretend you are 80 years old and you’re good to go on your first try.
Not that strange. Different users may belong to different groups which may have different authentication backends. The associated authentication method is brought up once a username has been provided.
if your choice of api route directly affects your auth flow something is very wrong.
You can do that as part of an OAuth workflow. You don’t need to have them on separate pages for that to happen.
Yes, but, it also lets them slurp up email addresses. Routing users is legit tho.
And the auto-submitting TOTP entry form where you’re apparently not allowed to make a typo. And obscuring the TOTP number like it’s a password or state secret.
This is because of Enterprise Single Sign On. You can try this for yourself by going to https://gmail.com/ and enter the email of a public person at a large org, for example the CEO of Doordash (
tony@doordash.com). After you enter the email, you get sent to Doordash’s employee portal to authenticate. Based on the email you provide, Gmail has to figure out if you need to provide a password to gmail itself or if the email authenticates another way.It’s not like you can’t add a “Log in with your company’s SSO” button to the form. That works just fine and at least Microsoft does something like that.
Not sure I’d take design inspiration from Microsoft of all places. Also https://login.live.com/ has the same workflow email -> continue -> password. Not sure where you’re seeing Log in with SSO option.
I see the Login with SSO option all over the place. Of course, that assumes the users actually understand what that means, and they know whether or not they need to click it.
Zoom has it, for example.
My company uses Entra ID (or whatever they’ve renamed it to this week) and it’s a pretty common sight in our login flow. I think our SharePoint instance does it so it should be something MS does.
Of course it all depends on w how the company configures it.
Ok, I think I get what you’re saying. You mean have a different form input without the password, like how it’s done here: https://eu.app.orcasecurity.io/login? I guess that’s one way to do it, but it’s not really intuitive from a user perspective, since the first thing you see is a password field, and then think you don’t have access because you don’t have a password. This one comes to mind because I have had to tell people to click the tab for the email only field, not email and password.
I also often see implementations where there’s a first step where you have to select how to log in. It’s an extra click but very clear (and usually one of the options is some form of SSO where that one click fully logs you in if you already have a session open).
1Password handles this gracefully
God I hate those stupid magic links. They’re WAAAAYYY slower than just using my password manager.
AND they kinda contribute to locking you into Big Tech. I sometimes have problems with those stupid links because I don’t have a Gmail account. Somewhere along the stupid chain there’s probably some stupid check that delays or blackholes emails to non-big-tech domains.
Based.
Email is terrible. It’s an unreliable communication system. You cannot depend on sent emails arriving in the recipient’s mailbox—even the spam folder.
People incorrectly assume that all emails at least get to their spam folder. They don’t. There are multiple levels of filters that prevent most emails from ever making it that far because most email traffic is bots blasting phishing links, scams, and spam. Nobody wants phishing and scam emails, but the blocks that prevent those are being used by big tech to justify discriminating against small mail servers.
I can’t remember the site, now, but I literally couldn’t log into one this week because the email never arrived.
I had an email never arrive because I used Firefox for Linux. It worked on my phone in a different browser. God knows what went on there. I suppose their website never really registered I even made a request from my desktop even though it told me the email was on the way. Really strange.
I can’t remember the site, now, but I literally couldn’t log into one this week because the email never arrived.
Well, email allows you to solve that issue by self-hosting. But what you can’t solve is that if you do self-host, gmail will drop your emails to spam or just discard them completely, just because it feels like it, even if you do the whole dance with DMARC and have used the domain for a good few years. It’s frustrating as shit.
It’s over the phone, but the “We’ll send you a text to confirm your identity if you provide a phone number.” Has got to be one of the stupidest wastes of time.
I slightly appreciate it, explicitly when it’s a service that excludes voip numbers.
