There’s one that lives near my house. Initially i felt bad always seeing it alone. However as time passes I can confirm it is definitely an agent of chaos: randomly crashing into the dogs’ pool and bird bath at full speed, sending the grackles, finches and sparrows flying, and making “nests” in the dumbest places possible such as the window sill near our front door when it’s terrified of us. It somehow laid an egg in our mailbox that is always closed. The other birds give it a very wide berth any time it lands near them, and now i think I understand why.
I feel this as a Millennial. Being able to adapt to change is at the core of our existence. Since pigeons live in cities where they take whatever opportunities arise, I’m not terribly surprised they are willing to try new things and see what happens. Similarly, I feel like if I didn’t get used to chaotic change, modern life would be impossible to navigate.
It’s funny, though, that pigeons refuse to be “pigeonholed” into one way of doing things.
It’s all fun and games until the pigeons start vibe coding and taking human jobs.
What would happen if you were placed in a cubicle and money appeared when you pressed the 5 button combination?
I know I would attempt other combinations. Even if I was told the right combination from the beginning.
The money keeps coming every time, and the payment is clearly an acceptable cost, so there are obviously a lot more money available.
It’s not that I’m greedy. I’m just not happy being fed only a trickle of the potential.
with no selection pressure, they can become "Stupider: since people drop refuse and scraps for them to feed off of, plus next to no threats from birds of prey in cities.
Pigeons are domesticated animals that humans abandoned. Of course they’re dependent on human trash - just like stray dogs and cats are.
There is still plenty of selection pressure. However, there has been even more artificial selection. Darwin was actually fascinated by domestic pigeons and studied them intensively https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3288640/
Even seagulls eat pidgeons
Let me introduce you to the peregrine falcon
You’ll notice their range includes essentially everywhere on earth, though they really thrive in cities.
Due to their greater abundance in cities than most other birds, feral pigeons support many peregrine populations as a staple food source, especially in urban settings.
The peregrine is a highly successful example of urban wildlife in much of its range, taking advantage of tall buildings as nest sites, and an abundance of prey such as pigeons and ducks.
DDT really did a number on urban avian predators; it gets concentrated up the food chain and then the eggs of birds become too fragile.
I haven’t checked in for a few years, but I think New York City was making efforts to reintroduce them.
And it’s funny to me to have an environmental initiative largely motivated by “something needs to be killing all these fucking pigeons.”
Me too, pigeon.
TL;DR…?
As articles go, this isn’t a long one, just saying.
It is paywalled though.
Disable JavaScript. Loads fine.
Pigeons prefer to switch up the way they perform useful behaviours.
Researchers know that rewarding a behaviour makes it more frequent, and they assumed it also makes behaviours more consistent. But they tried it with pigeons, and pigeons prefer to do the rewarded behaviour in lots of different ways. They like changing up their strategy for getting treats.
They think this might not be unique to pigeons, so they’re gonna try it with some other animals next.
Speaking anecdotally, I prefer to use a variety of different Go openings over the same one again and again.
they are making sure we know they arent an NPC
Wouldn’t using different Go openings be disadvantageous to you if you’re playing a different partner every time?
I don’t care, brain craves variety. It’s more fun to do lots of different things.
Variety is kind of a moving target for brains.
I notice this especially with music. Some genres of music sound all the same to me, but I’m also certain some music I listen to is interchangable to other people.
Once you can sink into something, little details start to matter more.
evidence from a single study suggests pigeons may not be wired to repeat behaviors that have rewarded them previously, instead opting to try new behaviors
Thank you!
And IMO that would be an exceedingly strange takeaway as I see it in general, pigeons being some classic Pavlovian-exhibiting animals as it were. So then, perhaps what’s being suggested here is that they’re more exploratory and exhibit much more free will and unpredictability than previously imagined…?Or something like that?
Something like that. I think the study wasn’t designed/interpreted well to demonstrate variable behavior.
They presented the pigeons with 5 differently colored buttons. 5 button presses of any color in any order would dispense a food reward.
The pigeons continued to press random buttons and get their food. The researchers argued that since the pigeons didn’t press the same sequence every time, or the same button 5 times in a row, that this demonstrates they prefer to try new behaviors rather than stick with ones they know result in a reward.
I think they might be giving the pigeons too much credit, intelligence-wise… but I’m kind of a pigeon hater so I’m severely biased lol
I think they’ve only found that pigeons can’t count to 5
Did they have a control group where the colors did matter? If there was never a condition of it mattering, why would anyone vary the presses, unless they just liked pressing red a lot, or the easier to reach buttons, or something else. Seems like an experiment that had already determined the result.
Well, it does tend to happen with rats/monkeys/people.
If 5 buttons all work the same way, you just hit whichever one is closest or whatever, over and over again. You spam it, hit it as fast as you can.
I can wake up my computer by hitting any key, I have something like 50 keys to choose from, I click the mouse every time.
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5 button presses of any color in any order would dispense a food reward.
With rules like that, I don’t understand why you would expect the pigeons to repeat the same sequence. Of course, this is yet another study that shouldn’t have even made it through peer review.
With rules like that I would expect people to split onto two groups: ones that learn one pattern and repeat it because it’s a guaranteed result, and one that tries to find a counterexample to the rule they thought of at first. The fact that pigeons try different patterns kind of makes them more clever in my eyes.
But it’s known that pigeons perform better than humans in Monty Hall problem, so they are really pretty smart when it comes to statistics, it seems
They thought the pigeons would develop a favourite button or a favourite pattern. But the pigeons prefer variety over favourites.
Yeah it seems that probably pigeons didn’t know what worked or didn’t work and since they never got a wrong answer after 5 button pushes, nothing mattered. Did they push the buttons faster?
nothing mattered
So pigeons are both chaotic AND nihilistic !
But if theres no wrong answer why would they
Yeah maybe they were wondering if they could get something better to happen and there was no cost in just pushing random buttons so why not
Also wouldn’t that mean that pigeons wouldn’t be trainable with treats?
I have a friend who trains WILD pigeons with food, so… doubt
Trains wild pigeons where?
Around Wellington CBD. It’s not just her, it’s a thing people do
Thank you for pigeon training videos. You knew exactly why I asked LOL
takeaway: pigeons are wild in the sack
Or in layman’s terms, pigeons are completely stupid.
Unless they just find pushing the different buttons more fun than pushing the same button 5 times. “haha buttons go brrrrrr”
The prisoner experiment, the marshmallow test, now the pigeon experiments of the Skinner Box. Which psychology experiment will stand the test of time?
The original paper is also open access and a fairly accessible read! https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2027-47688-001
Peck peck peck peck peck.
sounds like they’ve mastered…
pigeon pulls out a gun
Oh no!
All right
Chili dogs!
Same
based pigeons
“You could argue the birds are just utterly resistant to locking into anything stable.”
Or that pigeons are utterly stupid.
Pigeons are actually fairly intelligent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_intelligence
