- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Signups opened this week for Loops, a short-form looping video app from the creator of Instagram alternative Pixelfed, reports TechCrunch.
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Hmmm…
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Clicked on the link. Pronouns for a company is wild 😆
Welp thars a hard no.
Surprised they’re not asking for peoples’ firstborns.
At this point, it’s sounding more and more like a social experiment.
What a great way to build trust in a newly born platform! And how respecting to the people that are using the platform! Way to go!
sounds like Facebook
TikTok gathering data and selling it to whoever is a problem but it’s not the problem.
The problem of TikTok and many other social media is that it drains our energy and motivation. It’s like digital weed, creates the feeling that there’s no reason to change things. We can just consume things.
Barkbarkbark
TikTok is designed to make you consume and not meaningfully engage. As complex as the algorithm is, users’ ability to participate in discussions is severely limited.
ByteDance is capable of writing software that predicts what you want to see next, but it can’t write comment sorting, or basic threading like Reddit?
The severe limitations in communication are deliberate. You’re not supposed to engage meaningfully, you’re supposed to look at it, feel something, and then scroll.
One of the reasons I like seeing new social media startups (like Lemmy) is that the current offerings are harmful to us, and any challenge to them as the potential to make positive change.
Bark
That’s a problem. Absolutely. It’s not the problem though. I’m not sure the problem can be summarized so succinctly. This is the way I’ve been putting it:
These are the top reasons humanity needs successful, decentralized, open social media platforms:
- Collecting and selling user’s private data is dangerous and unethical.
- Using that data to intentionally and directly manipulate user’s thinking is even worse.
- All of the major centralized social media companies have been proven to either allow these illicit information campaigns or coordinate them directly. TikTok is the focus right now but Sophie Zhang exposed Facebook for doing exactly what TikTok has been exposed for recently. Can you recall any meaningful consequences for Facebook? Do you think Facebook is now safe to use?
- It’s clear that most political leaders are either too ignorant, too corrupt, or too inept to meaningfully legislate against these problems.
- The concerned public can’t shut Pandora’s box. No one is coming to save us from big tech or the monied interests and nation-states that wield it.
- The concerned public can’t easily and legally audit the platforms big tech builds because they are closed and proprietary.
- Personal choice is not enough. Not using centralized social media increases personal safety but does little to curb its influence otherwise.
These are listed by order of intuitive acceptance rather than importance. I find it aids the conversation.
The best reasonable answer to these problems I’ve seen proposed is for the public to create an open and decentralized alternative that’s easier to use and provides a better user experience.
Will that kind of alternative be a force for pure good? I’m not sure. To your point: I’m not convinced social media of any kind can be more than self-medication to cope with modernity. Then again I’ve had incredible and meaningful conversations with close friends after passing the bong around and spent time on Facebook/Reddit, and now Mastodon/Lemmy/etc, doing the same. Those interactions were uplifting and humanizing in ways that unified and encouraged all involved.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We need to take care of each other, refuse pure hedonism, and protect the vulnerable (and we’re all varying degrees of vulnerable). At the same time: humans aren’t happy in sterile viceless productivity prisons. Creating spaces for leisure which do no harm in the course of their use isn’t just a nice idea… It’s necessary for a functional and happy society.
it drains our energy and motivation
All this time, I thought the daily grind of employment - consuming 8-12 hours of my day for someone else’s profit - was what exhausted my free time, limited my opportunities for socializing, and drained my enthusiasm for local organizing. Turns out it was the fifteen minutes of free time between meetings checking current events that was to blame.
It’s like digital weed
So its palliative care for our lack of comprehensive healthcare, but even less effective at the job?
Nah man, Social Media Companies are at an evil genius level of greed. They are the ones creating the feeling of consuming a “digital weed,” as you call it. Blaming the users is tantamount to saying the world is polluted because people love cars, as if the oil and gas lobby isn’t cultivating that and profiting massively off of it.
TikTok is popular because it’s addicting, not because it’s useful, so I don’t understand why anyone would use this.
TikTok is popular because it’s addicting, not because it’s useful
TikTok is profitable because it is addictive. But the idea that short-form video is less useful than print or radio is flawed.
I don’t understand why anyone would use this.
For the same reason someone would turn on the TV, download a podcast, or pick up a magazine.
If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. It seems like an idea worth trying. What is there to lose?
The first round of applications are for ios only, android has to wait, would have liked to have known that information before I spent the last week waiting.
Edit: had to reset my password via the reset link in the welcome email.
But the Android app is already available. Although I can’t log in… Is this because the server is overwhelmed or are Android users indeed blocked? Why would they release the app then?
Did you reset your password, the welcome email has a link to change it.
ITT: People in their mid-twenties or later, who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media.
Elitism aside, I don’t really see what federation solves here. What benefits does federation offer the user? How does the recommendation algorithm give users what they want? How will a decentralised platform perform the kind of centralised events a platform like TikTok is known for?
ITT: People in their mid-twenties or later, who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media.
You’re just waving away an important fact, which is that shorts and their equivalents are notoriously known for killing attention spans and disrupting the management of dopamine in the brain, causing depression in particular.
We are no longer simply in the traditional custom of the elderly who despise the activities of the younger generations, we are talking about health.
While true, how is that any different to the arguments that were used for TV? Additionally, Lemmy is a social network in the same way that Reddit is. Is this not also dangerous?
As has been the recommendation for practically everything for the four decades I’ve been on this earth, moderation is key. Instead of hating new media, either regulate it (if the evidence is truly that great) or treat it with healthy moderation.
Let’s be blunt here. Most of the people in this thread aren’t worried about health. They don’t like short-form video/foreign-owned companies/things they didn’t grow up with, and their elitism is getting the better of them instead of them letting people like what they want to like.
I made a rule that i only do social media on desktop pc. Phone is only for emails and rss feeds. Seems to work
While true, how is that any different to the arguments that were used for TV?
Television is bad because it is a passive activity, but it is less harmful than the continuous ingestion of micro-videos. But I don’t see what it has to do here.
Additionally, Lemmy is a social network in the same way that Reddit is. Is this not also dangerous?
What’s the connection? I didn’t mention Reddit.
As has been the recommendation for practically everything for the four decades I’ve been on this earth, moderation is key. Instead of hating new media, either regulate it (if the evidence is truly that great) or treat it with healthy moderation.
This would be to ignore the particularly addictive nature of this kind of content. It would be like comparing apples to Snickers: both are sweet, yes, but one is much more problematic.
Let’s be blunt here. Most of the people in this thread aren’t worried about health
That could be a point, but I’m pretty sure that if you ask anybody, the main reason given would be that it makes you stupid. But I can agree that this opinion would not necessarily be based on anything other than the eternal contempt for novelty as video games or manga were, for example, before they became popular.
A distributed service is much less vulnerable to being bought up by a single narcissistic billionaire who can ruin the online experience of millions of people at once.
A distributed service like Lemmy is spread out over 600 Instances in countries all over the world. If someone buys the most popular Lemmy Instance and wrecks it, those users can simply move to the same communities on the second or third or fourth most popular Instance and the original Instance will wither and die. This also works for communities with power tripping moderators. You can quickly find out through a search which community is the “real” one by the number of subscribers it has.
But again, what tangible benefit does that have for the average user? They don’t give a fuck about billionaire ownership, moderation, or where an “instance” or server is located.
Well, you should care about it because that’s how online communities get ruined. Case in point: Twitter has become a propaganda tool for an apartheid-loving fascist since he bought it.
Why should a user care about the health of an online community? To them it should “just work”.
(I’m being purposely facetious here, because the average person really doesn’t care about this shit. When Twitter no longer serves its purpose to them they just leave and go to the next place)
Why should a person who goes to the park care about the park?
If people are dumping trash everywhere and all the plants and animals are dying, I assume you wouldn’t like to spend much time there anymore.
Sure another park might be opened, but constantly changing parks isn’t what you want to do long term. If someone buys up the basketball court and turns it into a cesspool of hate, you can unsubscribe from that court and remove it from your park. Adding another one that is nicer, without completely going to a new park.
But again, what tangible benefit does that have for the average user?
You have more control over your front-page content. If you don’t want to get a particular feed, you unsubscribe from it.
Federation can solve the danger zone content for you, how about a federation network with just kids content, other with more adult ones, etc to the just nsfw isolated from each others?
That’s…actually a really good use case for something like this. I’d argue that a recommendation algorithm that tailors to the best content a given federated service can provide for their use-case is probably a better source than what you’d get from a single source of truth that could give you everything and nothing.
Moderation
You may see shorts in lemmy in the near future because of that.
I don’t think they’ll be able to do any type of direct competition for TikTok with a lack of advertising and payments You’re not going to draw quality creators. Decentralized algorithm sounds like a nightmare to manage.
However one place they will have some advantage is censorship. Anything that’s not explicitly illegal Will be a hell of a lot harder to stamp out. Moderation will probably be very light.
Authwalls, data sovereignty, self controlled open source algorithms for finding content without manipulation by corporations, etc
All true, but what explicit problem do they solve for the average user?
Authwalls are an issue for everyone because everyone doesn’t have an account unless they create one.
who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media
I don’t watch the TikToks. I get my information from a source I know I can trust.
What benefits does federation offer the user? How does the recommendation algorithm give users what they want? How will a decentralised platform perform the kind of centralised events a platform like TikTok is known for?
I might argue that the ability to curate your own content, rather than being plugged into the Main Feed that just front-loads whatever the highest bidder wants shoved into your eyeballs, is a relative improvement to the current Facebook/Google ad-supported algorithm model.
But in the end, it just gives more weight to advertisers and influencers. You have to lure people into subscribing (like old school newspapers/radio/TV had to do) rather than buying visual real estate directly in their eye-line. You’re still going to have InfoWars and Drudge Report and Joe Rogan tier content. Its just something you’re going to be baited into opting into rather than struggling to opt out of.
But it will keep you using the Fediverse as a model longer, because you feel like you’ve got a degree of control (I don’t have to listen to Rogan if I don’t want to). Whereas services like YouTube and Facebook are forcing their users to choose between getting injected with the cheapest, hackeyest swill or to switching providers.
the benefit i can see is that instead of having to share out to other social media, you can just see it in any fediverse account you have thanks to activity pub which eliminates one of the barriers to being viral.
that said i don’t think it will get mainstream appeal.
Very cool that its federated but to be honest i just dont like this kind of short form content. I ratherd watch a youtube video.
My biggest problem with short form content is I want to pick what I’ll watch based on the uploader, title and thumbnail, not be algorithmically fed videos I may or may not be interested in. All of the video providers are going straight for the algorithm so I have zero interest.
The algorithm won’t know what kind of content I’m in the mood for so I want to be in control to choose. The algorithm also likes to try to feed me content by some creators who aren’t worth my time and I don’t want to watch one second of their videos
Especially repost bots, engagement bait, or just plain misinformation. It’s rampant on Instagram.
In recent months YouTube has been suggesting content that screams “meninist/right wing onboarding” so if I just watched whatever it recommended I might be in a very different place right now…
Short form content ruins people’s attention span. I’ll pass.
Same
Not interested in the short-video concept. But I like the name, though. Short, sweet, doesn’t sound too “techy”, not too complicated to pronounce or spell.
Awesome! This sounds like a much better way for me to share the occasional video of either or both of my dogs being super cute on c/dogs (and on other non-Lemmy forums) than relying on an anonymous YouTube account.
(I may have partially used this post as an excuse to share a video of one of my dogs being super cute.)
Bröthër, whërë ärë my lööps?
big Pete why are you so BIG
I’m still waiting for the further instructions they promised to send by mail lol
(insert here the “The TikTok at home” meme format) So actually I did my own with PeerTube (self hosted server side) and Latrix (mobile client to live stream) and you can see the result at https://video.benetou.fr/w/p/hfPcHz1kCgnM6zKhfPrS4b (playlist of 6 short videos with progress over time).
I’d argue it… works. Is it necessary or useful? Well I didn’t keep up with the format but it potentially can be. My point being… we already have quite a few tools in place.
I wanted an account, verification email is not arrived.
The waiting list is still very long at this point. Probably don’t expect to get in for like 2 weeks…
😐
Sounds cool for hosting videos! Maybe I’ll try it.
deleted by creator
This is pretty cool. I’ll check it out.
Nice profile picture!
Go fediverse 😍
