We are just finding out about a child sex trafficking ring involving politicians and billionaires, the world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally, and the President being an adjudicated sex criminal is probably not the worst thing he has done…
Meanwhile I’m standing here in the checkout line feeling guilty about whether or not I should tip a barista
Something is wrong with our collective notion of morality, and my individual understanding (Oh well, here we are)
On a related note, the latest Trump administration cabinent picks and antics unironically cured my impostor syndrome.
If these gaggle of fucking demented backstabbing morons are good enough to run this country…
And they can show that about half the country is actually so stupid and or intentionally blind and or evil to somehow not realize their cult leader just obviously is a huge rapist and pedoohile…
Then I am better than this country.
Better qualified, more empathetic, more competent.
Turns out it was just angry clowns gaslighting us the whole time.
Well uh fuck em, this is all so stupid that I now actually have the correct amount of self-confidence and self-respect, it is indeed this entire society that is a joke, not that I am somehow fundamentally inadequate.
“Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it.” Plato knew what was up.
it’s easier to get ahead with a weaker skillset if you’re ok with fucking over someone else to get there.
angry clowns
We are stuck in a surreal angry clowns horror movie.
Honestly, I think my moral OCD needed to hear this.
Chatting with a buddy of mine this morning. He is looking at stuff he did in his life. He went to see the play, Annie, when he was a kid.
“They wouldn’t do Annie today, it’s too woke” I said. Then, it dawned on me. "I’m wrong. Annie would be totally fine.
Short review: 'An orphaned girl is bought by a billionaire real estate magnate and groomed at a luxury resort," would fit right in with the morals of a political party
You should tip the barista
Her employer should pay a living wage that doesn’t need to be subsidized by tips
I also don’t know why we tip in Canada, they have the minimum wage paid. It’s still not a “living wage”, but the retail worker has the same wage.
Yeah also who tips the people who picked your vegetables in the field?
Tipping isn’t gratitude, it’s a system that lets corporations avoid paying workers a living wage. The barista earns a few bucks an hour, relying on tips to survive because the company doesn’t want to pay them fairly.
It’s not the barista’s fault. The corpos’ use them as leverage to perpetuate their shitty behavior. If you don’t tip, they suffer, not the business. That’s emotional blackmail dressed up as generosity.
If we keep tipping just to hold the system together, it never has to change. Real change would mean companies paying fair, livable wages up front, even if it makes the coffee more expensive. I’m fine with that and I feel others should be too.
Tipping should be a “thank you”, not a lifeline.
If we truly cared about baristas, we wouldn’t just tip, we would be be advocating for a better system that doesn’t force them to depend on tips to survive. A mass refusal to participate in this broken model is the kind of disruption that could force companies to actually pay fair wages.
Instead, we keep tipping because it feels easier and safer in the moment even though it traps workers in a cycle of dependence. I get it. It’s uncomfortable to stop doing what feels like the right thing. But sometimes, real support looks like pushing for change, not maintaining the illusion of it.
Yeah absolutely this. I live in a country that pairs a fair wage to service workers, so the 3 or 4 times I’ve actually tipped over the years has been able to show gratitude when someone has gone above and beyond on what is a special occasion for me. But until you have fair wages, all you’re doing is paying a secret fee that’s left off the menu for the worker to be able to survive.
I used to think that.
But if no one tipped, all the employees would leave, and the employer would need to slowly reconsider their life choices.
My sorry ass still tips 20% on everything in the moment though.
Why? If all I order is a drip and they don’t have to do anything special, doesn’t the cost of my coffee cover everything?
Are clean surfaces something special?
But isn’t their labor to clean the surfaces included in the cost of the coffee? Like when I buy groceries, the cost of the groceries pays for the labor to clean surfaces, but I don’t tip extra for that.
It should but it doesn’t. Like for a while starbucks tips would go towards the shift that cleans the place.
Why isnt starbucks paying them a wage that doesnt demand a tip? whynot the call center tech? why not the cashier at walmart? why not the guy who signs you in at jiffy lube? why not the janitor at the local mall? why are some jobs more deserving of tips than others?
That’s sort of where I’m coming from in a sense. If everyone is being paid a minimum wage (which is 10.50 where I am, but people generally make 15-25 for “entry level” jobs here), why should I be paying extra for specific services?
It really made me stop going and giving them my money in the first place, which is sort of a lose lose for both of us if you don’t consider my fiscal responsibility a win.
Many restaurants are allowed to pay their employees below minimum wage. They expect tips to fill that gap.
No, it’s basic.
This is my random uninformed opinion, and I’m well aware that there are problems with it and it’s not the solution, I merely throw it out there as food for thought. I think every worker should make a living wage as base pay, but as a teenager I worked a job that was a tipped job (not food service).
It was in the late 2000s and early 2010s I made about $5.50 hr base pay, which was twice what my employer was legally allowed to pay me as a tipped employee, although by law at the end of the week if my tips didn’t get me up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 they had to make up the difference.
I loved it. I did it for several years and at the end of every year I averaged $12+ an hour, and I was one of the employees who worked a larger chunk of slow shifts which obviously skewed my hourly average downwards. For a 15, 16, 17 year old teen in 2008 when the economy had crashed that was REALLY good money. Every other job was either a minimum wage job, or waitressing for tips. If I worked a busy shift I could work 4 hours and leave $100 in tips richer, plus my base pay. I don’t make $30 an hour now working in healthcare.
Anyway, all of that lengthy word salad to say that while I understand and agree with the arguments that tipping culture allows companies to not pay living wages, for teens and college students, who are probably always going to struggle, rightly or wrongly to get a well paying job, finding a job where they are mostly paid in tips can be a life changer. I worked hard in high school and stashed my tips away and when I turned 18 I had a (very) used car that I purchased myself and almost 10k in savings that I used to sustain myself through my 20s when I was trying to launch myself into adulthood through lower paying jobs that didn’t pay a living wage. I do not come from a privileged background, my parents didn’t help me with anything and in fact from the time I was in elementary school I had to work for basic life needs, so having that savings from my own work was a safety net that would have been almost impossible to build up $7.25 an hour.
Apparently this is not a shower thought🤔 /s
I am surprised by you being surprised, I knew for about 10 years.
Epstein also definetly did not kill himself but the media in my country is already reporting him as suicide now, and people forget.
I would go with modern socialism/communism but, ever since Joe McCarthy, america tastes bile in their throat every time those words are bandied about. Pavlov and B.F. Skinner would be proud.
While people in power are absolute evil most of the time, this is not an excuse to change your own morals for the worse.
Small acts of kindness, when taken in decent quantity, change the world no less than massive fraud and sex trafficking.
That said, one of the most moral things to do is to be on the lookout for powerful people doing nasty things and do everything in your capacity to prevent or at least retaliate. This makes abuse less common, and goes a long way to restore democracy and responsibility for everyone.
Don’t expect the world to reward your good behavior. You will find your own internal motivation, or maybe not. But judging others never ends well. Just focus on your own actions. Nobody says being a good human being is easy…
And make sure to turn off all the lights and appliances you’re not using to save power for the AI. This future is trash.
And reduce your water usage because it’s a drought. While we grow water heavy crops like almonds in those drought stricken regions and foreign investors from arid countries grow water heavy crops like alfalfa solely for export back home.
Or specifically bred/GMOd soy and corn which gets used for animal food instead of soy and corn humans could eat.
(Nothing against GMO, but against our high animal produce consumption)
Just finding out? Hasn’t all of this been known for almost a decade now?
Epstein prosecutions started in 2006. https://apnews.com/article/trump-epstein-investigation-records-timeline-545c371ee3dd3142355a26d27829c188
Our leaders are so disconnected from the average person only them being forced to confront their own mortality can snap them out of it.
We could really use some phantom thieves to steal the hearts of these leaders with distorted desires.
Good reminder to play Persona 5 again.
By morality you mean our collective fork and knife?
mortality
Granted
Are you really feeling guilty about not tipping because of the moral implications, or do you just feel socially shamed? Important distinction.
Considering the idea of shame is society’s way to enforce it’s version of morality, I would argue no it is not a distinction.
Like you said, society’s version of morality. So it can be a very important distinction because your own version of morality might differ. Not being aware of this distinction is dangerous because it stops people from developing their own moral compass. This own morality is more firm and can be relied on in the absence of shame, or even when society encourages behavior one finds immoral.
I’m even gonna go on a wilder speculation here and claim that one of the driving factors behind humanity’s worst atrocities was that large portions of society who had the potential in them for a firm morality rooted in empathy and love never developed this potential.
On a less import note, not being aware of this distinction can breed a lot of resentment and unhappiness, if someone is constantly compelled to follow rules that they, deep down, consider to be bullshit.
Of course that doesn’t mean I encourage people to just disregard society’s version of morality and lightly assume that they know better.
Edit: just noticed your username, I hope that furriosa is doing well <3
*Furryosa is doing well and thank you for acknowledging me.
But fuck you anyways!
Considering that drinking coffee is my prefered kind of laxative, i would argue theres actually no distinction between coffee and shit.
I don’t … think that was a part of the conversation going right now, but I am enjoying the turn it is taking!
Huh. I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, but I just realized I started experiencing constipation after I stopped drinking coffee. I think I should start doing that again. Thanks homie!
Or just hydrate more—its better for you and your shit.
Oh, ya boi hydrates! I drink so much water that I don’t flush after using a stall just to flex on the next motherfucker.
I had a feeling my comment had a noble purpose :)
Fuck yeah!
For me it’s the empathy of knowing that that person won’t have enough money because I know they don’t get a living wage.
But by tipping the person you support the system that doesn’t pay them a living wage. It’s similar to why you shouldn’t give money to people begging.
I’d say it’s a little thornier than that. By tipping, you support the person who has to take the job that doesn’t pay them a living wage. Absolutely, this can have the side effect of supporting the system creating this condition, but so too does patronizing businesses that employ this practice. The best move if you don’t want to support the system is to not patronize businesses that function this way at all. Increasing corporate revenue while not contributing to the welfare of the person who had to take that job is not a morally better position.
Feel somewhat similar about giving money to beggars, though with slightly more emphasis on the voluntary nature of the act (which itself could be fodder for moral discussion - what’s the difference between Jack the Hobo’s and Jack the Barista’s experience?). End of the day, while systematic overhaul so both of these conditions are irrelevant is warranted, for both groups it’s about survival until the next day (yes, for some beggars survival includes dope, withdrawl is hell). The revolution ain’t coming tomorrow, and even if it did there’s time required to get these folks what they need. It’s entirely possible they wouldn’t make it to that point without voluntary support from individuals or small groups.
You shouldn’t go to restaurants at all if you’re averse to tipping. Only by starving the industry can the policy be scrapped. Don’t take it out on the workers. Hold the owners to account.
I feel guilty because I’m conflicted about what the right thing to do is, the cost, and care about fellow workers.
You probably understand why I would have a moral question (alongside some guilt of doing the wrong thing) after reading through the entire thread engaging your comment.
Meanwhile Epstein, Elon, and Trump don’t seem to have these hang-up’s and are rewarded handsomely by society…
Not OP, but both.
One of the best distinctions!
Just finding out? Haha, no, we’ve known about this ring for the better part of a decade now. The wealthy and powerful probably a lot longer than that.
Even the next part:
world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally,
Don’t get me wrong, horrible and completely unacceptable.
But sure as shit is nowhere near the line of what’s happened with the last 100 years:
The Business Plot, also called the Wall Street Putsch[1] and the White House Putsch, was a political conspiracy in 1933 in the United States to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator.[2][3] Butler, a retired Marine Corps major general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans’ organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities (the “McCormack–Dickstein Committee”) on these revelations.[4] Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, “there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
In case anyone’s eyes glazed over instead of reading, two key points:
wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans’ organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow Roosevelt.
And even more importantly:
Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, “there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.”
Shit didn’t just get bad, it’s been bad.
And the way to fight it is an opposition party like FDR.
A fairly wide range of problems in modern society can be traced to the judiciary’s reluctance to both prosecute and sentence the rich with the same rigor they apply to the poor.
Oh yeah Musks grandparents were part of that
Everyone acting like these are the worst times ever, makes me wonder about their history education. Yeah, America’s taken a steep dive this century. Yeah, that’s normal for empires to fall. Usually to greed.
I’m hoping we crash hard, Great Depression hard. That clusterfuck ushered in liberal politics dominating until the 90s. We had conservatives, Reagan comes to mind, but they didn’t have unchecked power like today.
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before.
False premise. I never said it was the worst time ever, or even that I was surprised.
This is just about the relativity of my morality and what society is willing to tolerate
(this to the above two smart comments as well - although I don’t fundamentally disagree)
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before
I mean…
Anatomically modern humans have been around, what, 300k years?
Like you could grab someone from back then as an infant, raise them today, and they’d just be a regular dude.
The last ice age ended about 50k years ago, and that’s why we say civilization was finally able to start. But that ignores that humans went thru the same ice age cycle 4-5 times in those 300k years.
If all it took was “no ice age” then logically the chances of the first civilization being 50k years ago is pretty much zero.
Climate change is like the inevitable reset for humanity. We’re making it happen fast this time, but we can’t really be sure that’s unique either. It doesn’t even take us, just a supervolcanoe or asteroid.
Bright side is it makes it more likely humanity as a species makes it thru the next one. I think evidence shows we’ve been down to like 1,000 humans world wide 70k years ago? Maybe as little as 50 adults of reproductive age?
But we’re 8 something billion now.
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before.
We also never had nukes before.
The conditions have been worse in the past, but the risks are so much worse these days.
The Business Plot never ended, they just regrouped. All those fuckers involved should have been hung.
The way to fight it isn’t a FDR-style party that will just give concessions to staunch the momentum of the working class, which was rallying behind communist ideology through unionization efforts, that was threatening the capitalist status quo at the time. That status quo is the entire root of the problem. The only way to fight it is to dismantle the system that gives them their power and build something new, not to continue enabling the very systems that keep us on our knees.
Actually over 2 decades, now. Epstein’s plea deal was in 2008 under Bush.
When did I get old?
Reminds me of something. Martin Luther’s own writings dating from 1531, in which he stated that Pope Leo X:
Vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy.
Our tech changes but we don’t.
Given this past decade, I’d say I we’ve known about it for the worst part of the decade.
I’ve learned paedophiles seem to be naturally skilled with grabbing power throughout history and the present is no differnt. I’m more aware of that fact now.
I’ve also learmed a large percentage of humans actually are fine with their leaders raping children. One might think they’re fine with it in general.
They have no morals, which is why they can grab power so easily. They’re not playing by the rules. Thus to win consistently, you’d need to cheat as well.
Then you’re left with two options. Cheat to win too, or rolling heads.