I’ve seen a lot of US lemmynauts being clueless about what to do to improve things and fight against the political situation. I understand that it doesn’t come naturally if it’s not in your culture so I’ve written the following. Feel free to suggest better ideas, alternatives and so on:
Here’s what I’d do:
- Join a union
- Join a political party or an organization that is not one of the sellouts
- Join any canal you can find that informs about protests, strikes and other actions
- Educate yourself on the actual methods of protesting, what works or doesn’t work, what you should do or not
- Organize these infos if needed and share them around
- Equip yourself, take a dumb phone, take liquid eye cleaners droplets (no idea how it’s called in english), take something to cover your nose and mouth against tear gas, take some kind of eye protection
- Learn your rights, what to do and learn a specific lawyer phone number (by heart) in case of arrest
- Relay those links, organizations and everything around yourself
- If it’s available to you and in line with your ethics, arm yourself before they confiscate weapons to politically awake citizens - and of course, start training yourself
This above is the easy part you can do from your couch. Then:
- Follow and participate to your union/party/organization events/meet-ups/flyer distribution/cybermilitantism/…, try to help them in the ways you can. You have a car? Offer to bring food to the meet-ups. You’re following the news 24/7? Offer to set up a RSS feed or some kind of news aggregator with what’s important in your area and all the shit that’s happening. You’re good with computers? Help those that want it to install a linux distro instead of spyware OS…
It is very important to find or create networks of people around you that are decided to help improve the situation, as they can help you in case you need it. It doesn’t even mean that you have to join dangerous action (you define what’s dangerous for you), but even just signalling to the people that will act that they are not alone by being one more person in the group is already a boost for everyone, especially if you help them in some ways.
Then, as much as you can, participate in the group’s actions, and evangelize the group’s existence around you.
What if there’s no action? Try to push for it in the meet-ups. Start with something easy. Tracts distribution, door-to-door to offer help and support around your neighborhood and make the group known, sentry in your communities to signal ICE/dangerous individuals raids and presence, offer to be a contact or to help people that might be targeted next, create workshops to rewrite the constitution in a way that would make it better for everyone, organize debates where people of different opinions actually listen to each others… The group needs to build confidence by actively doing something useful together. And it can stop here if people in the group have cold feet for more - it’s already great. Once the group is created and solid, it will be able to change direction if needed by the political climate.
Next steps if people are motivated: actual political activism. Protests, sit-ins, happenings, guerrilla urbanism, petitions, blocking highways, or going to talk to people in power… The research you’ve done in the first steps should give you ideas of what you can do, and how to do it. Advice from a french protester: keep things joyful. Our protests are always a happy moment (up until the cops come and hit us), we’re singing, we’re dancing, we’re having fun. It shouldn’t be a chore to be there, and if possible the action should make people want to join you. It helps grow the movement, it helps grow the links between people, it gives a good image of the movement.
And what if there is no group like that around you? (Well I can’t believe there is no union, but ok.) Then build one! Start small, with people in your community, with people that work at the food bank, with people you’ve met at the No Kings protests or something.
You cannot succeed as individuals. This is political, and political is the action of the many. Join the many, help increase the many, create the many if needed. The more numerous you are, the stronger you will be.
And walks away, like the coward he is.
Make sure to protest with cones and bottles of water to put out incendiaries. Keep masks and eye protection handy for protecting yourself from paintball strikes like this asshat.
ICE has been overrun with psychopaths.
If you work for the government you are a coward
What’s with the cut right before he fires?
All these masked up garbage humans were all whining like toddlers about masking up during covid.
Widespread Protests in major cities against the unpopular and authoritarian
IranianAmerican regime.Protestors need to start arming themselves.
I am telling this for months. A couple of months ago I was downvoted to abyss because “no we need to be peaceful because that’s how you solve problems”. No fucker. Do you think all people in Germany between 1935-1945 were silent? Protesters were killed en masse and literally nothing changed.
Learn from the past. Arm yourself. You outnumber them easily. They will stop shooting at you, when they look into 100 armed people.
Good luck arming yourself against a trillion dollar worth army
I mean, the Vietnamese and the Iranians, and the Iraqi, and the Afghani, have managed pretty well for all those billions. You know the Pentagon also can’t even pass a simple audit? We might be good, depending on how many $25k paper shredders the geniuses have been convinced to buy by their totally honest and not greedy contractors.
Weird, cause I only see three guys in this video.
Absolutely not. That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
What are they going to do differently? Start shooting armed civilians instead of shooting unarmed civilians?
They’re going to keep killing peoples regardless.
When is the tipping point though? They can do whatever they want as law does not matter for them anymore but the protesters should stay peaceful.
That’s what Trump wants, so he can declare martial law and cancel the midterms.
So he going to do the things he’s already doing and that he’s already going to do… he’s only going to do those things if we try to actually stop him from doing thise things… so what we should actually do is submit like cowards, and that will… stop him from doing the things he’s already doing, and is already going to do.
… Got it.
Brilliant strategy.
You don’t seem to understand what is happening here.
He doesn’t need an excuse. He’s going to do it. He needs to be STOPPED.
You need to wake the fuck up and realize the war has already started and refusing to fight just gets you mowed over.
seriously. do people think trump is not gonna rig the elections at this point? he’s been talking about rigging for a decade
He literally said multiple times that he rigged the 2024 elections with the help of Elon, but no one listened because “Trump says crazy things”
The “war” has not already stared but you stupid fucks will hand it to him on a silver platter.
Wh0 will stop him from doing what he wants? Judge? Police? Military? Answer please
you are dense. read the writing on the wall
He’s kidnapped another head of state and is occupying foreign territory. He’s sending military into American cities and killing civilians. What the hell are you on about?
I saw someone say that Americans won’t give a fuck about what their regime is doing, if they invade us, until we start sending their soldiers back in body bags. You’re making me doubt even that.
I sure hope if they send troops to Venezuela that they be met with another Vietnam.
Surely if you’re quiet enough the leopards won’t eat your face.
What more is it going to take for you to realize there’s a lot more at stake here than our own individual comforts?
Standing up to the first American king does not a stupid fuck make me.
They are already shooting women in the face point blank, and Trump calls the shooter a hero and the victim a domestic terrorist. Burn this motherfucker down.
This is murder, for sure. Not downplaying this crime. But what you’re suggesting would result in tens of thousands of deaths, not one.
Tis already happening and will get worse so whats the difference?
Yeah don’t worry. This will be last person the Nazis are going to kill. No need to overreact.
You are part of the problem.
You sure are from the middle ages if you’re making excuses for the ones killing thousands in concentration camps right the fuck now.
This administration is already responsible for way more than tens of thousands of deaths. Tell me, how many people did they deport last year?
I mean, he’s gonna cancel them either way.
Why don’t wait to see if that’s true instead of taking your word for it before descending chaos into society?
How many times has he said he is going to have a third term? How has ‘wait and see’ worked out for us so far?
This shouldn’t be downvoted. Couldn’t be more obvious what Trump wants and we’re going to hand it to him.
I guess you’re not part of a minority? Do you realize he’s already arresting, detaining, deporting and killing people right?
First the immigrants, then the people of color (we are here?), then the LGBT, then the leftists, and then whoever disagrees with him.
At which step do you say stop? Or will you keep saying “no let him put trans people into mental wards, all he wants is us to fight back!”? And when finally they come for you, will you still be passive?
You know what Trump wants even more than people to resist him? For people to let him do whatever he wants without resistance.
You still think you can show your belly and think Trump and his goons are going to leave you alone?
Are you not even paying attention to what is happening?
They go for the weak FIRST. Do think they are targeting trans people and immigrants because they are afraid of them? No. They are going for them because they are vulnerable.
So your plan is to be as vulnerable as you can be in the hopes that they’ll leave you alone?
Wake the fuck up.
What’s it like being outsmarted by Trump? By doing exactly what he’s trying to get you to do?
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
Are you trying to get them to take action or not? Pick a lane comrade.
It’s okay that you feel sad, it must be hard to realize that the world didn’t need you at all.
He wants to be a king. I think we should stop him.
How? By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
Maybe if wanted to stop him, we should have voted for Harris.
If he actually cancels the midterms, you might have an argument. Right now, you’re just too stupid to avoid doing exactly what he wants you to do.
By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
He has already deployed military within the country. Not resisting has not prevented him from doing it anyway.
That is by definition not a protest.
You might want to invest in a dictionary in case you decide to open your mouth and shit out something this stupid in the future.
a strong complaint expressing disagreement, disapproval, or opposition:
-
make a protest - Protests have been made by many people who would be affected by the proposed changes.
-
protest about - A formal protest was made by the German team about their disqualification from the relay final.
-
protest against - Conservation groups have united in protest against the planned new road.
-
in protest - Several members walked out of the meeting in protest.
See Also: peaceful protest
Instigating an armed conflict is a protest as much as surgery is a dialogue. That said, I think some armed resistance to the ICE would be warranted, but let’s not pretend words can mean whatever you want them to.
Yeah, your being ridiculously pedantic. The concept of protest dies not actually exclude violence.
I am always extremely pedantic.
Violence is not a complaint or in any way a form of legitimate dialogue.
Again, the concept of protest is not limited to legitimate dialogue.
I can go all day!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I suppose if you ignore every logical step then you can claim its definition is whatever you want.
We should come up with a word for this. How about an Ig-No Rant? You’re being Ig-no rant.
Just so you know, you’re 100% wrong.
that’s just your opinion
also let’s just be clear here, it is not “violence” (in the sense that you seem to be using it) to protect yourself against violence instigated by others
Violence is still violence no matter what the motivation.
If ICE force their way onto your property, that’s their violence.
If you force your way onto federal property, that’s your violence.
How did the French revolution go, again? One big ole peaceful protest, right?
You’re arguing against your own position. Or ARE you trying to say that the violent revolution was also a “protest”??
The French started by uniting the people and bankrupting the state, so I reccomend you start there as well, because if you go into a war with a minority of the public to support you then you’re going to wind up less like the French and more like the Spaniards.
You should be extremely shut the fuck up
the moment you say protests instigate violence by the perpetrator already invalidates your argument. you should really stop using conservative talking and buzzwords, its not very intelligent conversation.
Conservatives where you live talk about holding Peaceful Protests? Conservatives are talking about ways to oppose the ICE and the larger Trump admin? Really? That’s some weird fucking conservatism, my dude.
Do you need me to point out that nowhere does it say “if you are armed its not a protest” or can we all just agree that your previous statement was full of shit and that you will remember this definition in the future?
A protest is a complaint.
A threat is not a complaint, it’s a threat.
Self-defense is not a threat, and fuck you for trying to pretend otherwise.
I see we have some Kyle Rittenhouse fans in the comments here.
If you bring your gun out to the streets and use it to intimidate people, that is not self-defence.
I see that I was wrong to assume that you were ignorant instead of just too stupid to participate in a discussion. That is on my. Bye.
I mean, being armed doesn’t necessarily need to mean you are showing up to be violent. If you bring a firearm to a peaceful protest, with right to carry, and you partake in the peaceful protest, peacefully so, then ICE starts illegally opening fire at you, you should be able to defend yourself.
I think being armed with a non-concealed firearm is explicitly a threat. I think it’s a tactic used egregiously by our enemies and I don’t think it’s particularly effective. I don’t think the ICE is worried that killing you in cold blood is illegal, they generally don’t follow the laws in the first place.
I would assume you would bring a concealed weapon to a peaceful protest for the purpose of self-defense. 😄
Bring a rifle and slinging it on your back would definitely be a provocation/instigation lol
The other user(s) in this comment section is saying they want everyone to bring rifles. For all I know it’s all just Deceptichum’s alt accounts, maybe a couple Russian trolls, but I’m arguing with those people about a completely different subject than what you’re talking about.
If protest is by definition peaceful, why then do we need to clarify by declaring something as “peaceful protest”?
For someone obsessed with the meaning of words, you don’t seem to put much effort into understanding them.
We need to clarify because Fox News is constantly trying to classify all protests as Riots. Sometimes, protests do change into something else, they stop being peaceful, but the vast majority are not that.
The term “peaceful protest” massively predates Fox News. We were using the term in the ‘60s, and Fox News was only founded in 1996.
That’s fair there are also other people we need to clarify these things to due to the widespread implication otherwise.
The fact you have to put the word “peaceful” in front of “protest” to differentiate it from other types of protest already invalidates your attestment that the word “protest” implies peaceful means.
“Peaceful” is necessitated by the many many many false claims that a protest is anything but.
You kmow why there are many, many claims that protest can be violent?
Becsuse it can be. 🤦♂️
I guess those Buddhists that set themselves on fire in protest is peaceful because they didn’t set others on fire? Despite suicide also being a violent act?
-
Look up the black panthers bud. Nothing wrong with armed protesters.
Yeah, tbh, I don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing except get people killed. Were they victims of oppression? Yes. Did they do a goddamn thing about that? No.
You are incredibly ignorant to the community organizing and mutual aid programs that the black panthers created and helped facilitate to provide needed aid to so many neglected, black neighborhoods.
The black panthers created countless programs to provide community-run schools and clinics, food/clothing, legal aid, senior transportation, ambulance services, legal aid and counseling, as well as things like home maintenance and repair services through freely accessible mutual aid initiatives.
And, yes, they also provided community defense against state oppression from racist police forces targeting black communities. Which is something that today’s communities could learn a fucking thing or two from with our current situation.
I’m pretty sure the Black Panthers embezzled more than they spent on charity, thats why they had to murder their secretary in 1974.
Self segregationists did more to harm the welfare of black communities than help them.
Yes, because the party began to schism in its later years, obviously all of the good they did during their decades of activism obviously means nothing.
Also, I didn’t say anything about how they spent their funds, I was speaking about how they verifiably organized communities to exchange their resources and skills freely between each other, not simply fucking “charity”. Learn the difference. I don’t give a single fuck what they did with the money. Money is the least of my concerns.
And lastly, the black panthers were anything but segregationists. They happily worked alongside their white comrades as well as Latino groups and LGBT organizations, plus had a sizable portion of women in their ranks during a time of rampant sexism. The only thing they wanted to be separate from was the oppressive American government and the proponents of its racist as fuck culture.
Were they a perfect organization? No, but no organization is. They existed during a time when they were under constant threat by state and federal forces trying their damnedest to dismantle them. Some within the organization took things in the wrong direction in response to these existential threats, yes, but that says nothing about the good their organization did as a whole.
Black Panthers were segregationists, any claim otherwise is historical revision. When Stokely Carmichael of the Black Panther Party became president of the SNCC he expelled all the white members leading to a sharp decline in donations. BPP has been Segregationist from even before its official formation.
I don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing except get people killed.
They’re responsible for some of the strongest gun control legislation currently enabled in America today. What the fuck do you mean you “don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing”?
Yes, but their intention was never gun control, they’re responsible for gun control in largely the same way Purdue Pharma is responsible for the Sackler Act.
Maybe they should try an insurrection, doesn’t seem to be any crime against that, just white house tours.
At which point you now give them free rein to just switch to auto and hose down the crowd.
Welcome to the joys of protesting. Unless you are going geared up for a riot, all protests are inherently “peaceful protests” where you are standing with your hands tied behind your back waiting for the blow. Because if you fight back any more than what is socially acceptable (often times pushing against riot shields), you will die. And so will everyone around you. And the people down the street. And that couple who were unfortunate enough to live above the bodega on 5th street.
How did compliance work out for that lady in her car?
They don’t need a fucking reason.
We are past the point where being “one of the good ones” makes you less likely to get killed. Time to be a hard target instead of a victim.
Guarantee you won’t be in the thick of it.
Lot of “tough guy” internet warriors with zero consideration of pointlessly destructive that would be.
Pay attention to what the rest of us do so you know what stories to make up so your kids didn’t learn what a useless pussy you were when it mattered.
I already see what you’re doing. Typing words on the internet instead of doing anything. You’re pathetic and useless.
If only what Trump and ice were doing got you as mad as criticism of your advocacy for compliance and cowardness.
Trump and ICE do make me mad, which is why I don’t support stupidly doing things that obviously serve their purposes.
Go back to demanding other people die while you sit on your ass and do nothing. Not supporting random, indiscriminate and disorganized violence isn’t “compliance and cowardice”, it’s not being a mindless fucking dumbass, pussy internet warrior.
If you think that lady in her car is the worst that can happen and that we no longer need to show any restraint, then you have a profound lack of knowledge of history. If a group of citizens start raiding federal offices, the military are going to get involved in defence of the federal offices.
And maybe that’s okay, honestly, maybe we do need to make a stand when things like this happen, but be fucking prepared and be honest about what’s about to happen because it will not be pretty.
We’re going to recreate Tiananmen Square. We may zip right past Kent State.
Being downvoted for the truth.
Not generally how downvotes work.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. People really can’t handle uncomfortable truths. They’ve never seen war, don’t know what it’s like. It probably hasn’t clicked for them yet that they don’t get to respawn when they die. They don’t understand the unfathomable amount of pain that comes with getting shot. They don’t comprehend how irrevocable any act of violence is, or the responsibility that comes with permanently altering the course of history.
I mean sure, something needs to be done, but these people don’t stand a chance against a militarized police force with modern equipment and a virtually unlimited budget.
They don’t understand the level of coordination it would take, the organization and the discipline required. The manpower, the combat experience, the heavy equipment. Small arms wouldn’t cut it. They’re not prepared. They don’t understand what sort of preparation that sort of thing would require.
These are the same idiots who were saying before the election, “it’s better if trump wins because it will hasten the revolution.” Damn fools, there is no revolution. Not one that can succeed. The time to stop this was on election day, and we failed, because idiots like these thought call of duty was real life.
And then they downvote you for telling them war isn’t pretty. Pathetic.
“People don’t know that they don’t respawn when they die”
What kind of Gamerslop bullshit is this. Yes, people know that when you die you’re dead.
This also reeks of defeatism. “Our chance was election day and they ruined it.”
Fuck all the way off with that bullshit.
I said it hasn’t clicked for them jackass. Knowing something as an abstract concept is completely different from knowing it in your bones. Have you ever had bullets fly over your head? Cause I have. Real bullets, not pixels on a screen.
But if you know more about it than I do, by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet. You’re embarrassing yourself.
by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet.
So you think people should be taking action?
To be honest I don’t think all of the downvotes are legitimate, I’m sure the pro-Russian and pro-Chinese are tipping the scales in these discussions to promote violence whenever possible.
This administration has been promoting violence. We are promoting self defense.
What you’re promoting and what the Trump admin wants align pretty well enough. What’s going to happen if you don’t have as much public support as possible, is not riding in like the cavalry and scaring the ICE off, far from it, those ICE offices will end up staying open and Trump will use the excuse to grab as much local authority as possible.
If you want to close those offices, for good, then you need the people of the cities, the judges, the city hall, as many people as possible to call for the closure and for the Police Department to enforce those rulings. If you don’t think that’s possible, look to Portland right now for inspiration: they’re out tonight in the thousands.
That would make sense. Explains all these tough-guy keyboard warriors calling everybody cowards while also not doing anything about it themselves…
The reality is that they are scared and they are privileged.
They’ve never felt helpless before. They’ve never actually been impacted by the horrors that others… kind of just live with. To them? Cops are the enemy but they are also who you call when your neighbor’s party is a bit too loud.
So they had their first experience of fear and helplessness. And they need to DO SOMETHING about it. Which makes them think of all their role models like John McClane and John Rambo and John Halo. Maybe they’ve even shot a gun a few times and figure they know what they are doing. They’re gonna do something and they’re gonna do it all by themselves and anyone who doesn’t is a coward.
But also, episode 8 of Stranger Things is tonight so maybe next month? But all you fuckers who are talking about maybe talking to organizers and getting involved with their community? THOSE are the real cowards!
Pay for my ticket to the other side of the country. You won’t.
compliance would have been surrendering and opening the door.
Oh that justifies the murder then.
nothing justifies the murder
That’s completely false, they told her to leave.
Stop fucking lying.
oh boy, i didnt know that, i only heard what he said
And that was one lady just like it is always one person. It is not cops and their fat white kid friends indiscriminately firing upon crowds of civilians like it is naptime for Miss Smart’s kindergarten class. Which is what we see during some of the more historic massacres.
I know you’re scared. We all are. But if you are taking a gun to a protest you are not just putting your own life in danger but EVERY single life at that protest. That is why the more experienced organizers keep an eye out for that and will grab your ass and drag you into an alley if they realize you are packing (and not an undercover cop).
I strongly encourage talking to those organizers. I am not going to discuss it on lemmy but rest assured that we are all aware of this.
Your unwillingness to fight for you community is embarrassing. Stay home.
Its OK that you are fucking coward, that is your right, but its time for you to get the fuck out of the way of the people who are actually going to change this shit.
You talk really tough for someone who hasn’t done anything about it. If you have, it surely would have caught some headlines, and you probably wouldn’t be alive to post about it. We’d probably all be commenting on a video of you getting taken out by 20x as many cops. And if you were in a crowd of people, likely many would be taken out with you.
So if you do decide to put your money where your mouth is, just be sure to do it far away from peaceful protestors and any bystanders.
Until then, stop calling people cowards, you coward.
Ok I’ll call people cowards then, I managed to square off with the SPD, along with a number of other Seattleites, a number of years back, and…
We managed to cause them to retreat from their regional precinct HQ, they burned all the documents they couldn’t take with them, and fucking abandoned it.
But sure, yeah, go on, tell me more about how direct action can’t work.
The entire fucking point is that you organize as something like a guerllia force, not that you just try to ‘one man operator’ this shit.
You need discipline, organization, tactics, actual physical capability, opsec, etc.
A lone wolf is a suicide by cop.
Yeah, don’t do that, duh?
Oh and no, there aren’t any identifiable videos of me.
… Because I am not a moron.
Your canned lines are tired. And yes, you’re a coward.
Nice deflection. You’re a coward too, the difference between you and me is that you’re pretending to be better than everyone else.
Canned lines? You haven’t done shit. And if you do, make sure you don’t get other people killed who didn’t agree to be part of it. Canned lines.
You’re right though, I am tired. Peace out dude.
Fuck off, you think we don’t see the fresh 7, 15 day old accounts all advocating for bootlicking.
I appreciate that everyone is skeptical of all comments here.
And I’m glad people express that skepticism.
It’s very clear there’s manipulation here. And if you think you’re immune, you shouldn’t be participating in anonymous social media.
But I do appreciate that there are some people here to fight against the bots and threats to democracy, both foreign and domestic. Even if we can’t tell who they are or what is manipulation and what is honest.
Be careful what you post. Be aware. Be skeptical. Talk to people in real life, because even if it’s just people at the corner shop, that’s a hell of a lot more valuable than here.
I made my account a week ago after I got my ip permabanned from reddit for telling russian bots to fuck off too many times.
What I’m doing here isn’t bootlicking, what I’m doing is telling you to stop calling people cowards for not doing things that you’re also not doing…
You’ve put a awful lot of thought into justifying being a pussy. Is that the story your telling your kids when this is over?
Have you done anything that I haven’t? You act like you’re so brave and tough. Show me the headlines where you did anything about it.
Sure. That’s it.
Please avoid any protests where people don’t know you’ll be taking your emotional support assault rifle that you’ll obviously quickdraw with to kill the cops before they kill you. Because you are the best at call of duty.
Remember to take credit for the work that the rest of us do once this shit is over, just like every other coward that acts like they are helping when its safe.
Studies show that violent actions or rhetoric are much less successful than peaceful movements, due to the many undecided people choosing to cooperate with the victimized.
But just like the civil rights movement, you violent fucks feel free to ride on our coat tails.
These are conversations better had offline.
No. If somebody is going to be the asshole going strapped to a protest, that should very much be a very public discussion. So that others can take the appropriate precautions.
Because in the time it takes for the organizers to decide if that dumbfuck is an undercover cop or someone who is going to get everyone killed? The cops might see the bulge too.
ICE will not show up if people actually shoot back. They only act like this because they believe they are invincible.
It’s like everyone has forgotten why the Black Panthers showed up to protests armed.
A half dozen or so armed citizens on ICE watch in every neighborhood will have a chilling effect on their bullshit pretty fucking quick.
And if not? If not, then you’re already so far gone that you have no choice but to fight.
Some level of law enforcement is going to have to respond if there’s open gunfire in the streets.
What did they do at Uvalde Texas again?
How is this a point? So fucking stupid.
That ONE event doesn’t predict any other event.
Probably not. But the national guard and the army will. I recommend looking up the Tulsa massacre as well as all the times we have slaughtered Native Americans by the dozens (and that is just in the US).
Both of which were unarmed when slaughtered
How well has the army done against guerrilla warfare?
Psychotic gun-nut argumennts
Vietnam is on the other side of the planet and were supported by the Soviet Union.
Such a stupid fucking argument.
If there is one thing the right is correct about it is about keeping the guns.
Do you really not think there will be outside involvement when things go tits up?
Here’s another bot commenting 46 times telling us to swallow boot.
Are we really fucking doing this again?
Go look up what flock cameras are. And understand there are plenty more where that came from. We live in a surveillance state. So when you and your friends run out of nowhere to scream “wildcats” and shoot up the cops? They’ll fairly trivially track you to your home where you, your family, and the people down the street can be massacred at the leisure of the army.
And yes, yes, I know. You and all your friends are going to coordinate to destroy every single camera all at the same time so that nobody can ever track you. And you’ll aim your rifle in the sky and take out the satellites overhead. And you’ll do all of this without ever having to coordinate with another human being because, if you actually knew how to do that, you wouldn’t be speaking like a child and would realize you aren’t the only person with these fears and those community organizers are well aware of things.
Or they’ll just take a page from the israelis and blow up a random apartment complex because there were black people and The Gays in there. They were probably the shooters, right?
Homie was right, you’re a coward.
super strange argument you have, “these people are oppressive and totally powerful, and we should do nothing.”
whats the end goal of your ideology?
That would be a strange argument to have. I don’t know what the scarecrow’s deal is, but that isn’t at all what I am saying.
To summarize: if you bring weapons to a protest, you are not protesting, you are rioting. And if you bring weapons with the intent to kill (basically the only way a firearm is useful to “protect” from another firearm), you are literally a terrorist. That results in a VERY VERY different response.
Is there a time and a place for that response? I am not going to answer that on lemmy. But understand that most people at that protest are there to make their voices heard and don’t expect to soak up bullets for john rambo. And if it becomes known that is what happens because someone is always gonna bring a gun? Those protesters stay home
That’s a good first step. One of the best things we can do to fight back is make sure we have cameras that report to us, and that don’t report to them.
We decided what our cameras are used for. Not them.
Long pole with a spray can on one end is classic anti camera tech.
and then what?
I dunno. Maybe you should consider showing your local community and protest organizers you are trustworthy and talk to them about it? Not in a form that is trivially scrapable by anyone who can vibecode a spider?
Fucking scrape me. If I’m not on multiple lists by now then I’ve been doing something horribly wrong.
they want to provoke violent confrontation, and are likely supporting those who are contributing here advocating for violent reaction. Don’t fall into the trap and they will not have any excuses or justification for escalation.
To be clear: reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence, which is exactly what they want.
this is chess, not checkers.
Yea I remember when in school if you dont react to aggressive scumbag beating you he will stop bullying you. Works all the time
You don’t fucking get it. No one listen to this guy.
FEAR OF ESCALATION WILL ONLY BRING MORE ESCALATION.
The “don’t be provoked” thing only works in the old world. The one where rules and laws still exist.
These people are taking over, completely, and they will happily do so over your dead body if that’s what it takes.
They know it, and I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
Good luck to all.
They are already murdering people…
Dude, they are already shooting and killing peaceful protesters. What does escalation even mean in that context? They’ll shoot and kill even more people? When someone is shooting at you, self defense is allowed.
Renee didn’t escalate, and see what that got her?
ICE is dependent on people not being able to fight back. They are bullies, and would be much less likely to engage if they could end up getting three bullets in the face. Power that can be applied to them, is the only thing that a bully would respect.
they’re going to do the violence anyways, and they’ll make up excuses
woman trying to drive her car away from them? shoot her in the face
Right, placating Hitler instead of confronting him went great historically.
Okay can you share our next moves?
Because my calculus says civil war is inevitable and better earlier than later as they are actively preparing. They will look to build camps and disarm. It should crack off now.
The longer we wait the stronger their position became.
But please if you have a grandmaster mate worked out let’s hear it.
Protestors are coming to these events with no weapons in hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable, given what we’ve seen, for protestors to be carrying guns like the black panthers did. ICE needs to know that thier violence will not go unopposed, the need to SEE that.
Meanwhile they murder and deport people.
Keep playing chess and you won’t have anyone else to play with.If it was chess, Trump wouldn’t be winning. This is far from chess, it’s the jungle.
reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence
This position is not sustainable. All it takes is one act of violence to justify escalation against everyone.
I advocate for violence all the time. That’s because I hate them.
I think it’s silly to prolong this. They are doing damage by the day.
Exactly what “violence” was Renee Good guilty of?
These gestapo don’t need excuses or justification because they have no responsibility or consequences.
This seems like just a guess though of what seems “likely” and who “they” support. Truth is that no one knows. They may be supporting you as your argument is one that suppresses resistance and makes it seem futile, which also favours them and can be quite dangerous.
Not that I know what the truth is, just want to make clear no one knows. And they do not seem to need a justification for violence anyway.
They’re just playing you (saying this from outside US) because they know you can’t make sense of this, and resisting or not will both work in their favour.
No, we’re way passed this point. They are going to enact violence no matter how well behaved you are. The only hope is to show up in massive numbers and remind them how many more of us there are.
But it is a double negative. Peaceful protests hasn’t done jack shit so far, now it’s naturally a phase two…
👆 listening to this fool will get you and your loved ones killed
Bullies need to be punched in the face.
They will do that anyway. What are the ptotesters saving themselves for, slavery? Maybe they should try to emmigrate. That way, they can all be here, when we start gathering every person we can for the fight.
I’ll bet you also like to call Trump TACO, too, huh?
That they will escalate their violence is inevitable. At this point we should all be organizing our communities for self defense.
this is chess, not checkers.
They just ate their own rook.
I had the displeasure of visiting reddit’s doomercirclejerk subreddit where they acted like it was a justified shooting due to dangers posed to federal agents by all the Anti-ICE stuff floating around.
Where is your second amendment Americans, you are all cowards for allowing this to continue
Saw this posted somewhere. Not my words, but I and many Americans I know agree with this:
"To everyone outside the US who’s angry at Americans right now, especially those of us who hate Trump and feel trapped: Please understand this. We do not elect our president the way you think we do. Millions of us voted against him. Millions of us are terrified of the damage being done. We are not cheering this on. We are living inside it. If you’re wondering why we don’t just “revolt like the French” or “fix it” here is the reality of being an American right now:
Our system is rigid, slow, and stacked in ways that make “just revolt” a fantasy. We don’t have a culture where mass strikes shut the country down overnight. We don’t have a centralized government you can pressure in one city. We have fifty states, militarized policing, surveillance, debt, and jobs tied to health insurance. For many people, losing a job for protesting means losing healthcare and housing.
France is smaller than Texas. Organizing a “national” revolt across 3.8 million square miles (9.8 million square km) and 330 million people isn’t just difficult, it’s logistically close to impossible. That doesn’t mean we’re complacent. It means we’re constrained. Anger at US power is fair. Fear of US decisions is fair. But blaming every American, especially those who are fighting, exhausted, and scared alongside you, misses the mark.
We’re not watching this from the sidelines. We’re stuck in the same burning house. Just closer to the fire."
Edit: I believe credit goes to Jason Gervase, ASL Pinnacle
Not to dismiss the general sentiment of the message, but do you think french people go across the country to protest? Do you think we don’t have rent or mortgages to pay? Do you think our police isn’t violent?
I think French people have many more social safety nets to support them and that their police is not even remotely as violent as ours.
As for going across the country, that is directly addressed, France is very small compared to the entirety of the US.
I don’t actually really care about all the morons responding negatively to the copy/paste, I’m going to keep posting it. Europeans simply have it so much better than we do that they are completely unable to fathom that it’s so different in the US, which I would say is great, if so many of them weren’t such fucking cunts that believe themselves inherently superior by factor of country of birth that they feel the need to be so hateful online towards the people who are suffering from all of this, far, far worse than they are. They confidently demand violence and blood with zero comprehension of any nuance about the situation, understanding that not everyone fucking lives in or can get to Minneapolis on a days notice to kill ice agents or whatever.
Hundreds of people lost eyes, hands, legs and arms to flashballs and grenades during the yellow vests protests. A few were even killed. And there is no count of how many were wounded not that gravely.
When people don’t have money to go on strikes we organize caisses de grèves which are funds collected by unions to be given to the strikers, from people who have more money or cannot strike themselves.
Our ancestors died under live round fire to win the protections we have now, and we’re fighting to keep them every year. If you never start you’ll never have anything.
Iranians are currently protesting nationwide to overthrow the fuckers on top, a lot of them have died or have been thrown in jail without due process or anything.
When the Ukrainians revolted against the russian-backed regime, a lot of them died too.
Fighting for your rights is always risking something. If you don’t do it now, countless more citizens of the US and other countries will die or lose everything. It’s already happening en masse with ICE targeting people of color. It will only get worse from there.
As for going across the country, that is directly addressed, France is very small compared to the entirety of the US.
My point is that french people don’t travel to protests, they’re local events by and large. You don’t need to travel far away to participate. You don’t need to go to Minnesota to protest ICE killing people.
I’ll skip the part where you’re acting like a xenophobic asshole, I choose to believe you are only upset about the situation, and simply wish you best of luck in your struggles.
the people who are suffering from all of this, far, far worse than they are.
You mean all the victims of US’s foreign policy in the last decades?
I agree.The revolution will not be paid hourly. The revolution will not come with a salary.
I’d tshirt that.
their police is not even remotely as violent as ours.
Just for your sake: the current administration in France considers you can’t complain if you lose a hand or an eye or end up in a coma if you’re present in a non-authorized protest, even if you’re not remotely violent. The protest ban can be a piece of paper displayed on a door in front of an admin building AFTER the protest started.
And still, there are protests, and protesters still defy bans.
So yes, for sure, US police kills way more people than the French one. But protesting in France is not as safe as you may think.
France is very small compared to the entirety of the US.
True, but beyond a certain scale, it doesn’t matter. You can’t just make a few phone calls and organize a general strike. And US can totally manage its scale by the way: you had simultaneous protests in many large cities.
The main difference is probably the organization body: France has country wide unions. Unions are not based on work sector, they are representing more political positioning. So if the “base” is willing, union leaders can propose strikes, and if it’s a national political matter, it can become a general strike.
But just like you had massive protests, you can have general strikes.
Europeans simply have it so much better than we do that they are completely unable to fathom that it’s so different in the US
“Europeans” are not a single homogenous body, and “have it better” does not mean much. Since you were talking about France: 10% of the population depends on food banks. 30% cannot afford 3 meals a day. 40% struggles with their bills. I don’t know the numbers in the US, but they would vary state by state and then city by city and by ethnicity, etc. … just like they do in France. So some Europeans have it better than some US folks… and vice-versa. What matters at the end is who can do what and do these people have the will to act?
if so many of them weren’t such fucking cunts that believe themselves inherently superior by factor of country of birth
I’m pretty sure I read very similar comments about Americans believing strongly in their exceptionalism… Again: no country has that level of homogeneous thinking…
They confidently demand violence and blood with zero comprehension of any nuance about the situation, understanding that not everyone fucking lives in or can get to Minneapolis on a days notice to kill ice agents or whatever.
You stand exactly 0 chance to win a civil war if you’re in the rebel side anyway. Gereral strikes is what make governments fall outside of elections. And it’s very painful for all. The question is: more painful than what’s to come?
This was not a coup. Trump won the majority of the popular vote. On top of that, millions and millions of Americans chose not to vote because they felt like letting Trump win was preferable to voting for an uninspiring candidate. The vast majority of Americans actively contributed to this happening, one way or another.
I am sad for the few true victims, those that actively and passionately campaigned against this and tried to open other people’s eyes to the reality of the situation. But I also completely understand the generalised resentment towards America and Americans that many in the rest of the world are feeling.
Remember, you might feel like you’re trapped in a burning house. We feel like we are trapped in an apartment building with our hands tied, forced to watch powerlessly as our bottom floor neighbour allows their maladapted child to set fire to their apartment and drag our entire building into hell while we can do nothing about it.
He won due to pure propaganda and a decades long plan to treat American citizens like cattle.
The masses are stressed, overworked, in fear of food/housing/health insurance.
They’re also dumbed down from dismantling public education and brainrot of mass media.
Media is controlled by the owning class and the owning class is going to protect thier interests. They wanted a puppet in office they can head-pat to further hoard thier money like brainless lizards.
I read that as “I refuse to imagine anything but this, sorry about causing WWIII but we have forgotten the 1930s and you are all going to have to save us because we have become Eloi.”
This statement fills me with real and bitter contempt.
Then you cannot read. You and people like you fill me with far more disappointment and despair at how far the human race has fallen in such a short time frame; callous and evil, and proudly ignorant and lazy.
Keep lecturing, yank. You made this, it’s on you to stop it. And if you rethink some of the astoundingly stupid things your culture believes, that could not hurt. But this is not a moment when any of us owe you a shred of understanding. You’re fucking up the world right now, and instead of blocking traffic you’re on here begging us to understand.
We understand just fine. It is you people who have never understood your own country.
Basically you say you are fucked and your hands are tied. The pedo-president and his folks can do whatever they want now. Thanks, that’s nice.
But either way, in my opinion the anger is still justified. You could and should have fought more before the elections to try and convince Trump voters to not vote for him.
We tried, but then the additional ~25 million non-voters enabled them.
You could have tried to convince them to vote.
i’m sure they did. i don’t blame them for that part, those that voted against this.
but i can’t help but feel their actions since the election are not enough and i only hear excuses from them why they can’t/won’t do more.
But you have to understand, that while there is millions of good Russians, they still face the same general hate towards their country as long as they are a fucking threat to our lives. It means so little, when we have no idea who to trust. It’s not like all russians who supports putin, is wearing red hats Saying maga, so we can filter the bad ones from the good ones. All good People faces the same consequences, that was chosen by the majority. As long as you Guys votes “America first” we vote “America Last”.
If you don’t save your democracy/country soon it’s only going to get worse/harder to do so
Yet Trump won the “popular” vote. I don’t want to condone those who did vote against Trump. But damn… the popular vote… that really made me loose trust in the majority of the US population. To me it only makes sense if > 1/2 of the US population is seriously mentally ill (which it likely is). Otherwise it’s purely contradictionary to vote against your own interests (or let others decide in case of not voting).
Nah sorry about the few who are doing something and voted for the Dems. But not sorry for the rest of the population, they really dragged the reputation of the US into the deepest of sloppy slime (or something along these lines). And likely caused global instability (especially for the “west”).
One clarification: Not > 1/2 population, rather >1/2 voter turnout (about 64%) so about one third total population. They are a loud, stupid minority, but they show up to vote.
Right, probably slightly oversimplified. But just because 36% did not vote, doesn’t mean they would all vote against Trump (well they didn’t vote, so…) A good chunk of them still support (or supported at he time of the election) Trump. And the fact that they didn’t vote is also concerning in this important election (now especially in hindsight, but also at the time). Even as European it was extremely clear that everyone that doesn’t support Trump had to vote (the lesser evil), yet for some reason they didn’t. Because of reasons I just cannot fathom (as the result was and now is clear).
Its sad. Our reality version of Cyberpunk 2077. Get people dependent on the system and fuck them over and over again.
Oh fuck right off. 70 million voted for him, and tens of millions didn’t vote at all. This is exactly what America is.
Fuck you.
No matter stupid you are, he’s right.
Yeah because everyone knows it’s good to have your name down voting against the authoritarian psychopath who almost certainly won a rigged election.
Fuck right off back to Canada with your shitty opinions.
It was not rigged, you fucking blue MAGA dumbass
Ya huh, a few experts say they’d like to look into it but you of all people know better.
As an aside there is no blue maga nor am I a Democrat ya judgy dipshit.
All I see here are excuses… excuses to justify inaction
The world has seen Murica decent into fascism for at least 15 years (as in CLEARLY FALLING)… sure it’s hard now but your own apathy and “fuck you got mine” attitude brought you here, there are no easy answers and you will NOT get out of this by waiting it out
While you do fuck all, the rest of the world suffers real pain… you think your ICE thugs are bad? (and yes, they are) what about the thousands your country kills around the world for sport?
So Muricans, fuck you, cry me a river and get to the fucking streets to stop the complete holy fucking mess YOU created
So let’s say I go out to protest with a gun in my waistband. ICE kills someone, I pull out my gun and start shooting at ICE and get killed when they shoot back.
What the fuck did I just accomplish? How did that help anything at all??
Like what the fuck are you thinking is going to happen here?
So let’s say I go out to protest with a gun in my waistband
Maybe just go to protest (on a weekday this time please)… let’s start there… you don’t have to indulge in your Murican violent fantasy for every scenario
You will have shown ICE they can’t kill without consequence, making them think twice.
You will have encouraged others to fight alongside you.Or you can stay on your couch. Thoughts and prayers and all that…
I’ll have escalated the situation to warrant the use of legal force against all future protestors. What the fuck is wrong with your brain that you can be so far off from reality??
They already use deadly force against current protestors, legality be damned.
At least admit you’re scared of facing reality, it’s no shame, half of that minority of muricans with a brain is probably in shock trying to.cope with all of this.What planet are you living on? How many protesters do you think have been killed by ICE?? That’s ok, I’ll wait, you can use your fingers to help you count if you need to.
You are right… stay silent and keep taking in the ass while the rest of the world burns from your stupidity
Eat shit you waste of space. Comment your bullshit on web forums and think your doing something remotely useful. Get a life.
No, I’m complaining Muricans are doing nothing… learn to read, then you can insult me all you want
No, you’re just fundamentally misunderstanding the reality of the situation. But yeah, keep whining online about how people whine online, hypocritical moron.
Exactly what kind of action should I be taking according to you?
something? anything?
OK, thanks. Real helpful.
Nobody is coming to solve this for you bud… so you can continue to pretend to be the victim or face the fact you helped cause this and now have to sacrifice a bit in the hopes of getting it fixed
Maybe start by organizing one of those cutesy No King marches on a weekday when it would actually affect something
I mean, at least as an exercise for when fascism inevitably comes to your country what specifically should I be doing right now?
Wow! What specific, actionable advice you’ve given. Go take your stupidity somewhere else.
Why is it up to me to tell you how to save your country?
Oh whoa is me, we’re so terribly dumb we didn’t know what we were doing. It wasn’t me it was him
That’s the same excuse that children use
I’m sorry you’re not intelligent enough to read and can only sling playground insults like the child you are
I don’t own a gun, it’s not required. If I did, I wouldn’t run out in the street and just start shooting people because that’s fucking insane.
I love Lemmy because of the way people of voting on comments on this thread. People are sharing their true feelings instead of the brainwashed safe for Reddit opinions that people have been conditioned to share online.
G g g guys… Don’t fight back, that’s what he wants. Just get a shovel and dig a hole in your backyard and bury yourself in it. It’s the only way to stop the violence…
It is what he wants, you goddamn dumbass.
the truth is that he will take either one. the oppression continues either way.
so the question is, which path has the chance for you to actually become free?
He wants you to be afraid to stand up to him under the threat of him making it worse.
Reminds me of that scene in Back to the Future where Biff is twisting Marty’s father’s arm… when will muricans punch back?
Where are you from?
Im one of this continents original occupants
They’re now working for ICE
Fuck ICE
With the force of a thousand suns.
Bring ballistic goggles to protests. They are not fucking around. Neither should you
I think this was a spur of the moment the neighborhood coming out to protest. But for future ones yeah, eye protection, breathing protection, pads.
Id advise everyone to get a pair of ballistic goggles whether they plan to protest or not. Just be prepared. These idiots will start blinding people without realizing or caring.
We need more self-defense classes against ICE agents. For Renee.
